What are the basic necessities of life (methyl isocyanate)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the significance of methyl isocyanate in the context of the origins of life, particularly its potential role in prebiotic chemistry and abiogenesis. Participants explore the implications of recent laboratory findings regarding the molecule's formation in space and its relevance to the development of complex organic compounds.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight the laboratory results indicating that methyl isocyanate can be produced on icy particles in conditions similar to interstellar space, suggesting its potential presence near young solar-type stars.
  • One participant argues that if RNA preceded polypeptides, the significance of a spatially created precursor for polypeptides may be diminished.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the discovery, suggesting it represents an unlikely string of molecules rather than something life-like.
  • Some participants propose that the findings indicate a level of chemical complexity achievable prebiotically in space, potentially leading to more complex chemistry through reactions with other molecules.
  • A participant introduces the concept of abiogenesis as an emergent process, outlining conditions necessary for the evolution of life from inorganic substances, and compares it to emergent behavior in a computer program called "life."
  • One participant expresses gratitude for the clarification provided by another, indicating a growing understanding of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the implications of methyl isocyanate for the origins of life, with some supporting its significance while others question its relevance. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives present.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various assumptions about the origins of life, including the role of RNA and the conditions necessary for abiogenesis. There are unresolved questions regarding the implications of the findings and the definitions of key terms.

wolram
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What is the importance of methyl isocyanate to life and if this paper is correct how bigger discovery is it?

< Mentor Note -- link to text added >[/color]

https://www.eso.org/public/usa/news/eso1718/

Niels Ligterink is delighted with the supporting laboratory results: "Besides detecting molecules we also want to understand how they are formed. Our laboratory experiments show that methyl isocyanate can indeed be produced on icy particles under very cold conditions that are similar to those in interstellar space This implies that this molecule -- and thus the basis for peptide bonds -- is indeed likely to be present near most new young solar-type stars."
 
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If RNA preceded poly-peptides, as I believe is currently the most popular scenario about the origin of Earth life, then it seems unlikely that a spacially created precursor for poly-peptides would be relevant.
 
Here is a Science news article on this discovery.
It has some background on why they were interested in that molecule.
 
Thanks BillTire, So there is nothing out there that is (life like) they have just found an unlikely string of molecules.
 
I think that it indicates that:
1) a level of chemical complexity is doable prebiotically and out amongst the stars before planets, and
2) this chemical might be able to react with itself or other molecules to generate even more complex chemistry.
 
Let's try another tack, as sailors used to say.

The term we use for what we are talking about is: abiogenesis. Definition: original evolution of life or living organisms from inorganic or inanimate substances.
The key to this is that abiogenesis was/is an emergent process. Emergent in the case of abiogenesis means:
1. take a simple, permanent set of rules (Chemistry)
2. add a few different carbon compounds that will react with themselves or water, or other molecules easily
3. add warm liquid water
4. with no intervention and long periods of time those rules can and will create very complex compounds from simple ones.

You can see what emergent means using a computer program aptly named 'life' - the program has 4 really "dumb" rules (actually a quite brilliant man, John Conway, figured this out.) Once the game starts it inevitably gives the same result - what dictates different end results is the setup of the living vs non-living cells (squares on a large checkerboard)

Please look at the animations, then read what the program does. This game exhibits a kind of emergent behavior, one that is not based on chemical rules but rather on very simple logic rules.
Emergent means applying simple rules over and over and over again. Ad nauseum. Then getting a very complex result. One you might never anticipate, a priori.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_Game_of_Life

This is what @BillTre is talking about - emergent behavior of simple systems.
 
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Thank you jim, I understand a little more now.
 

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