- #61
Nicool003
well one website (the drudge report) is very good I find it to usually be faster than the media and it hasn't failed me yet.
News What Are the Implications of Shock and Awe Tactics in Baghdad?
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The discussion revolves around the military strategy known as "Shock and Awe," which critics argue results in significant destruction, particularly in Baghdad, under the guise of liberation. Participants reference military theorists like John Boyd and John Warden, discussing their influence on modern warfare tactics. There is a heated debate about the existence of chemical weapons in Iraq, with some asserting that evidence has been found, while others argue that no substantial proof exists. The conversation also touches on the role of media in shaping public perception of the war, with accusations of bias from both sides. Participants express frustration over the portrayal of the conflict, the impact on civilians, and the motivations behind the U.S. military actions. The dialogue reflects deep divisions in opinion regarding the justification for the war, the nature of Saddam Hussein's regime, and the implications for Iraqi civilians caught in the conflict.
- #62
kyleb
the drudge good for many things, i would definitely not use it as my only source though.
- #63
Nicool003
I didn't say it was my ONLY source...
- #64
Phobos
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You may be upset about the war, but the US is not "bombing the hell out of Baghdad". It is bombing the hell out of the military/government targets in Baghdad. There is a huge effort to avoid civilian deaths.
Iraq on the other hand is reportedly using its civilians as shields and killing those (or the families of those) who refuse to fight.
- #65
russ_watters
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Two conveniently ignored, yet hugely important points.
- #66
kyleb
i think they are both good points, the latter as well as the fact that the "huge effort" is still leaving many civilians in its wake were things i expected when this war was proposed in the first place.
- #67
Phobos
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I should add that, at least in Basra, it would seem that the Iraq military is not letting the cilivians flee the city (shooting/mortar shelling groups trying to leave). The are keeping the civilians in harm's way, I suspect, in order to cause more civilian deaths so they can win the political war. I think Iraq knows it can't beat the Coalition military toe-to-toe, but they think they can win the propoganda war (and so far, they are doing well at that).
- #68
kyleb
ya, unfortnatly when you back people into a corner they often start pulling every dirty trick in the book. 
- #69
russ_watters
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So murdering your own people is just a "dirty trick"? Wow, is that all the Iraqi people are worth? These "dirty tricks" may land Saddam in front of a a Nurenberg firing squad and they are on par with the things that Stalin and Hitler did to their own people.
Certainly civilian casualties were expected - they are in fact unaviodable in a war. But how many do you think we have killed? by my estimate if we believe without question the reports of Iraqi tv, we've killed something like 150. Considering the tonnage we've dropped on Iraq, that's an extrordinarily small number.
- #70
kyleb
well when it comes down to the honest action or dirty trick line, which side would you put it on russ?
- #71
damgo
Like he's going to end up anyplace else anyways? That's the problem with leaving people with nothing to lose: They don't fight fair. If hiding in cities and guerrilla tactics are the only way the Iraqis can fight back, that's how their going to fight back.
- #72
kat
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I'm sorry, but I don't care what the circumstances are fair/Saddam's regime is an oxymoron.
- #73
russ_watters
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Well that was just an illustration - I think he's dead already.
when it comes down to the green or beaver line, which side would you put it on, kyle? What an utterly meaningless question.