What are the implications of time travel in popular culture?

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The discussion revolves around the controversial figure John Titor, who claims to be a time traveler with predictions about future civil unrest and societal collapse. Participants express skepticism about the authenticity of Titor's claims, questioning the credibility of the dates and the physics behind his assertions. Some find the narrative intriguing and worth exploring, while others dismiss it as a hoax or the product of a delusional mind. The conversation touches on broader themes of societal fears regarding civil rights and potential conflicts, particularly in light of historical events like 9/11. Participants also discuss the nature of evidence and belief, with some expressing a desire for firsthand experience to validate Titor's claims. Overall, the thread reflects a mix of curiosity and skepticism about the implications of Titor's story and the potential for future societal issues.
  • #61
yes. on anomalies.net, what appears to be a serious physicist picked apart john's claims and concluded that the claims are not sufficiently grounded in currently understood physics. i suppose the ultimate conclusion is that john is a faker. i believe links to this counterargument have been posted by zantra earlier in this thread on PF.

i know this is illogical of me, but i reserve the right to doubt logical arguments no matter how impeccable the logic is. what would really prove it to me to be negative would be if john came to me (or i to him) with his supposed machine and it didn't work.

to give an analogy, suppose a time traveler went back to 1935 with an F-16. he writes letters to aero people saying that he is a time traveler with a machine capable of supersonic flight. they would come up with convincing arguments to prove that is impossible; the lay person would accept their impeccable logic which says breaking the sound barrier is impossible. if the time traveler isn't willing to demonstrate his machine to at least the aero people, if not the general public, then the whole thing is essentially a waste of time.

forgive me for not trusting either john or the physicist.

cheers,
phoenix
 
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  • #62
Originally posted by Embermage
Technically, since he says that he was born in 1998, wouldn't that mean that he is alive and living somewhere in... Florida... right about now? Now, if he did give us his real name, which I doubt is true, would he be traceable?


Just some random thoughts from the peanut gallery.

Find the child Titor! Find the child Titor! Find the child Titor!
 
  • #63
we should also kill the child to test out the grandfather paradox. ;)
 
  • #64
Originally posted by PsYcHo_FiSh
I know, he never explained why he came onto the forums very well. I'm a skeptic but a entertaining story he paints. I hope he isn't some psychotic delusional but just some normal headed prankster. That would be funny then. Hopefully one day he comes out and admits it. Of course if I'm wrong, it would suck a lot because I'm happy being a fat lazy slob in a rich capitalist country. Except, I'm not fat.

PS Zantra where did you go? And who is this pamela character?

I'm still around. Been on vacation for a while. Pamela was the most connected to the John Titor story. Apparently he was communicating largely through her for various things such as the pictures that were posted. She's one of the moderators on anomalies.net
 
  • #65
Yes indeed, John Titor was, at least in my mind, sufficiently debunked. By a Dr.Robert Browne from Duke university. People were going crazy contacting people about this. Even Stephen Hawking was asked about this, though I don't think he replied.

Then apparently Pamela, who was the only contact JT used, and Darby, another moderator, received information from a "friend of a friend" of the person who was portraying John Titor, confirming that it had been a hoax that got out of hand. I guess in theory there's still a possibility that he's real. About the same way there's a possibility the loch ness monster still exists.

If you consider the whole concept, it's brilliant, yet flawed at the same time. Go to one of the few places on the internet where you could convince people to take you seriously as a time traveller, then construct a very solid story as you go, complete with very believable psuedo physics, then skillfully manipulate answers to your questions to aviod making specific immediate references, while making broad predictions about the future that are close enough to take seriously, but not close enough to be tested while it's still an issue. Kind of reminds me of the John Edwards debacle. Psychics operate on many of the same principles. Not sure what the picture of the time machine was. Old military gear is the common theory. The rest of the pictures could have been creatively edited with photoshop. If I had the time on my hands, I could probably create a picture of me standing next to the time machine.
 
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  • #66
Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
Here's some more. http://johntitor.strategicbrains.com/CopyrightProof.cfm

Putting aside the validity of this whole issue...

...if he's the true thing, this is EXACTLY the sort of attitude they would want people to possess, so he would just "go away".

Regardless if he's true or not, the underlieing message he brings is a fair warning for us right now to be mindful of how we conduct ourselves in the future. If he's not...then who cares. Let people decide for themselves, and if they want to believe, they can create a religion or something.
 
  • #67
Originally posted by Zantra
If you consider the whole concept, it's brilliant, yet flawed at the same time.

I tend to agree. However, the links that tend to note he's a hoax have been erased or otherwise censored. Is this by design? Most likely.

It is such a devilishly brilliant concept, and the implementation was very convincing. I'll tell you why.

His dialogue is very forward and down to earth. Whoever was posting this honestly believes in himself, his beliefs, even his history. He's either a whack job, or the real thing.

He makes no promises. Which gives him a convenient out, should things not happen. Considering that genetic convergence of 1% of or less can create birth abnormalities and changes, I can imagine what a quantum divurgence of 2.5% would create.

His whole mission is so ludicrous, it's believable. And directly unbelievable at the same time. Easy to dismiss...which gives it some credence. I've seen situations where old, obsolete hardware is powering multi-million dollar facilities. Basically the thinking is, if it ain't broke, it works, why fix it. Pencil detonator's for explosives are akin to this...there are fancy great new electronic detonator's, but they don't always work. 3 Pencil detonators are guaranteed to work. Don't ask me how I know that, I'm ex-Military.

The purpose for him retrieving the machine is not to use it...BUT that it is simply a tool that can read some arcane code. Given the state and the politics of the world, experts are probably few and far between and backyard mechanics are probably here and there. However...you would think that there is something more to the issue. The US Military is embarking on this mission...you'd think they'd have someone that can code in the various languages this machine can interpret and translate...UNLESS there are other languages not acknowledged. Or, of course this is entirely by design. A harbinger.

He's not a scientist. He's a soldier. Take a soldier. He can shoot his rifle, he can clean it. He can even take it apart. He can even be told the physics of how it fires, reloads...etc. But does that mean he'll retain it all? Will he be able to argue the exact tenets of theories, equations, and crap. A lot of the science that is supposedly debunking his own science is premature, and some of it is wrong. But it's where we are now, and we won't be any more advanced until we reach into the future ourselves...at one time we thought the world was square, the center of the universe, and man would never be able to fly, let alone land on the moon...

John Titor's story threatens people. It gives them a glimpse of something uncomfortable, and gives it to them in a meaningful, purposeful way. It also threatens the government. Believe me.

We don't have the specific science to 100% discredit him, and given our advances in science in the last 40 years, who's not say our entire quantum world won't be turned upside down. Tesla was an amazing man. You should do some research into him and the general inaccuracies in the current electro-magnetic theory. If he lived today, he may very well be a John Titor. www.cheniere.org

We also have no indepdent, verifably way to confirm if his science is flawed. According to him, at or about this time (3 years into

With 2.5% divergence...September 11th very well may not have happened, or the previous nuclear disasters may have overshadowed this. It's 25 years in the future, after all. Do you remember the Boer Wars? Grenada? Panama? Even the Gulf War? Thus because he does not come up with exacting and relevant conclusions, doesn't mean he's a hoax, either. Given the issues in the Middle East, I would say that's the first step of him being on-track.

Where do we go from here? True or not, I'm leaning a little bit to the hoax side myself...however if his road map falls out, it'll be interesting to see what happens. His message is a warning for all of us.

If he's wrong, even better...but what will the alternative be? It could be worse.
 
  • #68
Well for those who still hold a degree of acceptance for his claims, there's nothing to do but sit and wait for 2005. Waco/Ruby Ridge type incidents occurring, and escalating until we are engaged in full civil war in 2008 is kinda hard to miss. Of course there were also those proclaiming doom and gloom surrounding the millenium, and it didn't happen. Nothing to do but wait.
 
  • #69
There's a bit of leverage in this scenario. Even if we don't see it, there is going to be some sort of cataclysm. Even this 2015 cataclysm seems to come directly out of left field and probably isn't even related to the "civil war".

But it puts every one on the same page.
 
  • #70
Hi Rick,
First, thanks for posting. Have there been any serious efforts to debunk this guy? For example, I suspect that his time machine GE/C204 is a mobile receiver unit used by the military.

Iva - some "debunking". Not really anything serious I would say. Most folks have taken a "side" in the issue and most generally I would say everyone has an opinion, scientific or not, but rarely has anyone posted (anywhere to my knowledge) anything other than firm "opinions". My own included in that for that matter.

Pesonally, I have spent a lot of time going through his previous posts of the first couple of years when I wasn't actually involved in communication with him, and I took some of his material and set up an "experiment".

I'll give a few details here.

First I ASSUME for the sake of argument that John Titor IS a time traveler, and second that he is "telling the truth" about everything he says.

Secondly, we took his statement of "I will NOT make ANY predictions" to heart, and assume he makes no "predictions.

Thirdly, since the first and second things above we're assuming are true, we asked questions of him. People asked things like "What is your world like".

Those answers while not "predictions" per se, are statements of "fact" as "he knows it". In other words, if he IS from the future, and he IS telling the truth, and his time line is NOT MUCH different from our own time line, it stands to reason that anything he is telling us is reasonably OUR FUTURE (with some deviation, of 2.5% or so - more on that later).

Thus, we have statements of "fact" about what something is like in the future. This defacto becomes a "prediction" - not in the traditional sense, but a prediction nonetheless.

I took about 100 statements he made and listed them as "predictions". These were statements about how such and such a thing was, or will be, about the nuclear war, the "Waco-like incidents" and so forth.

No where did I find anything about stockmarkets, 9/11 attack, or something like that. Just random, real statements about what the future is like from his personal point of view.

My hypothesis is "John Titor is a Time Traveler" and the proofs will be in the statements, at least on a semi-scientific study of those things he said.

For instance... if 97.5% of the list comes true, then without any doubt in my mind I can say "John Titor is a time traveler". If anything less than that amount comes true, say 85%, then we can say "John is likely a time traveler". If 50% or less comes true we can reasonably say "John was NOT a time traveler".

Here is where I got the numbers.

In the discussions of the time machine there were some "deviation factors". The further you traveled from your origin (2036) the greater the deviation. At 76 years from your point of origin, the actual "time line deviation is 2.5%". Without having much further information than "things start happening differently" (one of his statements which comes to mind) and "the further beyond 76 years, things get weird" (to paraphrase since I don't have the actual material in front of me) I can ONLY make a wild assed assuption here.

That assumption is that any given thing has a 100% chance of happening "again". And the further you drift from a given time line, the more changes will happen. That is, things WON'T happen as they did in say, our time line. (I hope that is clear).

I took 2036 - 76 and that gives me 1960. So if he traveled back to 1976 then things would have been "weird". So, we will assume WORST CASE. That is, he has at least a 2.5% deviation "factor" from his actual time line. That means of 100 RANDOM things in his time line only 97.5 of them will occur as he leaves his time line (left it, is going to leave... whatever!).

Ok... So... IF John is a TT, then all of the things on that list I typed up long ago ought to occur.

The problem (one of many) is that many of those things were somewhat subjective. That means that even if this were a true scientific experiment (which it is only as close as I could get given the circumstances) then if he is a TT they will come true. At least 97.5% of the 100 things will. Anything LESS indicates that he probably is NOT a real time traveler.

About the Time Machine... I am a 26 year military veteran. I'm a radio guy by trade. I'm familiar with nearly every sort of radio system the USAF uses anywhere, and most of the Army's gear. I'm familiar with a lot of other radio gear because I've been involved in radio for well over 30 years personally.

In the images we received that were from John, of the time machine, there were things in the images I DO recognize. One is a small yellow box with a big dial on it. That was a geiger counter. I was very familiar with that particular device because I had several of those in some of my old tactical gear many years ago.

As for the time travel "device" itself... I have been unable to find ANYTHING that even comes close - except the external box itself. Someone else (whose name escapes me) actually found a box like that, painted green, made of high impact plastic and is precisely what the military uses to house certain types of gear. Generally gear is transported in them, and not installed as this TT device appeared to be.

In other words, I do not personally believe that the time travel device is actually some other piece of gear that has been modified to look as it does in the images. In other words, it isn't some piece of gear that was made for some other purpose.
Whether or not it is REAL - I can't say. I CAN say though that if I wanted to reproduce a device that looks like that thing, and appears to have some functions, I could do so. I am an electronics engineer.

On the other hand, the schematics I saw, limited as they were had some very interesting aspects to them,and from both an electronics engineering standpoint and physics standpoint they were well drawn (or thought out) and DID indeed APPEAR to come from scans of an original manual.

Other than that, I can't say for sure they were real or hoaxed. If they are a hoax, they are well done.

Now... for the record... and published for what amounts to be the "first time" even though I've said this in chat rooms...

Personally, I do not believe John Titor was a time traveler. I believe he furnished a well done "history", or "psychological study" of the human mind though. He was either a very good SF writer, who was practicing on the rest of us normal humans, or was doing this out of sheer need to attract a large amount of attention. Apparently he did.

On the other hand, being open minded, I will say that until someone proves it absolutely to have been a hoax (with honest records, and hardware - say, the time machine itself) then I will not close out the possibility in my own mind that he was real.

A "true debunker" will have an eye for finding pieces of the puzzle that do not fit, not showing the guy was "an idiot" or "anyone that believes him is an idiot" etc. I've seen WAY too much of that over the past few years. Instead, a real honest to goodness "debunker" will find the parts of his "science" that are wrong. So far, I've not seen anyone do that, not anywhere. Then again, I've not seen everything written on this subject yet and it grows daily. Perhaps we will never know... for sure.

Rick Donaldson
 
  • #71
Opps... saw a mistake.

In my previous post I said:

So if he traveled back to 1976 then things would have been "weird".

Should read:

So if he traveled back beyond 1960 then things would have been "weird".

(If he only traveled back to 1978, or 76 or so, then things would be exactly the same in his time line and the one he "landed in".)
 
  • #72
For those of you who missed this, someone contacted many scientists. One who actually bothered to reply was a physicist from Duke University, and he went over the flaws in his explanation of the workings of his time machine, and the inheirent flaws in such a device

This is his response, posted pretty recently.

http://www.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bb...ic;f=9;t=000482
 
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  • #73
yeah. i'd recommend that posters read the thread before posting.
 
  • #74
http://rosecity.net/al_gore/election_map.html

Has anybody noticed the cowboy holding a missle to the west of texas? Maybe that was what Titor wanted us to see.


By the way I don't like what Titor is doing. He appears to be practising mass hypnotism on people. He gives a few 'prophecies' of things that Titor knew would probably happen anyway. Then he describes a simple way to build a time machine. Some people want to believe in a time machine so badly that they go along with his suggestions that he knows the future and they expect it to really happen. Other people are shocked into suggestability by fear of the future.

I believe Titor's secret agenda is to start a war. Be careful about being taken for a ride that ends in disaster!
 
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  • #75
"by fear of the future"

"I believe Titor's secret agenda is to start a war."

doubtful that that could be accomplished on discussion forums in which he well knows lots of people will call him a whacko.
 
  • #76
Originally posted by Pocketwatch
http://rosecity.net/al_gore/election_map.html

Has anybody noticed the cowboy holding a missle to the west of texas? Maybe that was what Titor wanted us to see.


You're kidding right? I don't see how you can find a cowboy in all that. Amazing
 
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  • #77
Originally posted by phoenixthoth


doubtful that that could be accomplished on discussion forums in which he well knows lots of people will call him a whacko.

Tidor said he had personal rules that he followed unless they conflicted with his secret agenda.

Tidor said that building a time machine was the best way to start a war. (I don't see how he could have known that since he said the machine was built in 2034 and there was no war from 2034 to 2036).

Tidor gave a description of how the time machine was built. He seemed to be telling us how to build one.

He said that we would be better off if half of us were dead.

He said that he would not try to stop the war but we could yet probably wouldn't.

He said that in 2036 that people hated us.

As TT0 he said he personally hated us. He even blamed us for the death of his fiance who died of cancer.

I used the term mass hypnotism because that appears to be the effect he is having on some people. Would you prefer the term psycological terrorism? Tidor was very smooth in answering questions and covering up inconsistancies. Saying things like they use manual typewriters because computer printers did not work well on 12 volt batteries. The lifestyle he described in 2036 sounds like a struggle to survive. Living in tree houses and fishing for a living. How could they be developing the technology needed for building time machines?

Do you choose to believe that Titor's story is true and that he is a real time traveler?

I believe that he is conducting a well prepared experiment to see if he can change the future.
 
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  • #78
all i said, and/or meant, was that it is doubtful that anyone can start a war on a discussion forum. if that's his game, he chose poor tactics. go back and study his sun tzu, he should.

that opinion had nothing to do with whether or not i believe him. I'm utterly undecided.
 
  • #79
Originally posted by Zantra
You're kidding right? I don't see how you can find a cowboy in all that. Amazing

May be that Titor is just trying to influence the 2004 election. If so what party do you think he is favouring?

That sounds better at least than Titor trying to start a war on purpose.
 
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  • #80
i don't think the best way to start a war is on discussion forums.

i would blackmail a (group of) translator(s). so the next time the dude says "we come in peace" the translator can say "you will kneel trembling before us and obey my brutal commands," although it might be confusing as to why there were so many more words in the translation than the original... I'm sure such loose ends could be tied up.

;)
 
  • #81
For crying out loud...look at the number of views of this thread!
 
  • #82
Time Travel it's bout as logical as space travel

It is possible that a person was sent here to prevent some great catastrophe, but let's just be real. B.S military documents and pictures of some contraption you would find in radioshack(a well stocked Radioshack). We are sceptical by nature that's why there are Physics Forums. Our future military would have sent more stuff with him than a manual. Time Travel Yes Titor No.
 
  • #83
Dear god this thread just won't die
 
  • #84
Our future military would have sent more stuff with him than a manual.
when i envision a pilot of an apache flying in iraq, i don't envision that pilot having anything more than a manual for an apache, if that.
 
  • #85
But if?

But if that Apache Pilot fley back in time to WWII With information from the future the craft itself would be evidence. John Titor Had a shot Gun(not even a good one just some old chrome sawed off pump) and a Corvette. I can soup up a vette. Also he would know how his vehicle worked so he could fix any problems that would prevent his return trip. At least Smart Guy would.
 
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  • #86
Did anyone ask this Titor guy if he had a dog called Einstein?

Just a thought
 
  • #87
Well I guess we have less then a year till civil war! Come on guys he claims that his corvette is a time machine! I think it would be a fun to live the world inside his head.
 
  • #88
we already do.
 
  • #89
Whats sup Tweet

Originally posted by Tweek
Well I guess we have less then a year till civil war! Come on guys he claims that his corvette is a time machine! I think it would be a fun to live the world inside his head.

I guess it would be fun to live in the imagination. As long as you were able to return back to the real world. Then you would not need a time machine.
 
  • #90
Thinking about Titor ...

In my unlearned opinion, Time Travel is impossible and will always be (confined?) in the realms of Science-Fiction and flights of imaginary fancy.

TT is like the Fermi Paradox concerning the existence (or not) of ETs. If Men from the future can travel backwards in time then they would surely be here by now. Of course, this doesn't take into account the possibility of multiple timelines!

Some points to consider against the likelihood of TT:

1. Fact - The Universe is continuously expanding. Theory - The connections between superstrings must be expanding accordingly.

The atomic structure of a Time Traveller from the future would be comprised of 'larger' superstrings. Therefore, his very appearance in an earlier (smaller superstring) era would create a shift in the universal equilibrium, with possible devastating results for all.

2. Fact - As space expands, the Solar System is continously moving - and pretty darned fast too! Any Time Traveller coming from even a few days into the future (let alone three decades as Titor claimed) would find himself stranded in space (unless his Time Vehicle is a spacecraft too - and not many Corvettes are!).

3. Fact - The Time Traveller is comprised of matter. Matter redistributed by consumption/absorption et cetera from other external sources (we are all made from starstuff!). This matter would exist in a different form prior to the Time Traveller eating it. This different form would exist in the Time Traveller's past (our present). Which means upon appearing in our time, identical atoms would suddenly exist in two places at once! Paradox! Our universe would suddenly contain MORE matter than it did a moment before. Since matter and energy are inter-transferable, this would destabilize the universal equilibrium, again with untold bad results.

4. Fact - Nature likes balance. Moving matter/energy through the timeline willy-nilly would go against the grain. Chaos would surely result, and we all know nature cleaves to order. Theory - No Creator in His right mind would allow it. I wouldn't!
 

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