What Are the Key Components and Capabilities of AI Beyond If/Then Statements?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the components and capabilities of artificial intelligence (AI), particularly questioning whether AI is fundamentally based on if/then statements. Participants explore various aspects of AI, including its decision-making processes, the role of randomness, and the implications of quantum mechanics on consciousness and AI modeling.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that AI primarily operates on if/then statements, suggesting that human behavior can also be framed in similar terms.
  • Others argue that AI encompasses more than just if/then statements, citing examples like neural networks and genetic algorithms.
  • A participant mentions that all existing AIs can be implemented on Turing machines, prompting a discussion about the limitations of this perspective.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of Turing machines to natural intelligences, referencing Roger Penrose's arguments regarding super-Turing quantum-mechanical properties.
  • There is a debate about whether consciousness can be modeled on conventional computers, with some asserting that quantum computers are necessary for accurate simulations of complex systems.
  • Participants discuss the exponential scaling challenges in solving the Schrödinger Equation for larger systems, highlighting the limitations of conventional computing in this context.
  • Philosophical questions arise regarding the nature of consciousness and its computability, with some asserting that the theoretical possibility of simulation is more important than practical tractability.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of AI, with no consensus reached on whether AI is fundamentally based on if/then statements or if it encompasses broader capabilities. The discussion also reveals differing opinions on the implications of quantum mechanics for consciousness and AI modeling.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include varying definitions of AI, the philosophical implications of consciousness, and the unresolved complexities surrounding quantum computing and its relationship to AI.

Simfish
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Does AI consist primarily of if/then statements? I know that AI could also include random behaviors based on the "internal flip of the coin" as well. But what else can AI do?
 
Computer science news on Phys.org
I think AI does function off of if/then statements, as well as different actions to repeated events. Basically if/then statements that count up. In fact, it would be hard to deny that humans function off of if/then statements. Basically, there has to be an event for there to be a reaction. It is fairly hard to think of an action that cannot be converted to an if/then statement.

"If I don't want to look straight ahead, then I look in a different direction."

"If my sister makes more sound, then I get more angry with her."

Just my opinion.

"If someone starts a thread on AI using if/then statements, then type opinion in reply."
 
Simfishy said:
Does AI consist primarily of if/then statements? I know that AI could also include random behaviors based on the "internal flip of the coin" as well. But what else can AI do?

From a decision making perspective, all existing AIs can be implemented on touring machines. (Google/Wikipedia for more on what that means.)

AI is a relatively vague term, so it would be helpful if you could elaborate a bit on what you mean by AI.
 
NateTG said:
From a decision making perspective, all existing AIs can be implemented on touring machines. (Google/Wikipedia for more on what that means.)

If yout meant Turing machines, I'm pretty sure I once read a book by Roger Penrose that would disagree with that. I believe it was called "The Emperor's New Mind".
 
billiards said:
If yout meant Turing machines, I'm pretty sure I once read a book by Roger Penrose that would disagree with that. I believe it was called "The Emperor's New Mind".

You'll note that I said 'existing' AFAIAA Penrose argues that natural intelligences (such as some humans) require super-Turing quantum-mechanical properties in that book.
 
No, A.I. is not just a bunch of if-then statements, at least, no more than any normal program is. Look up neural nets, genetic algorithms, computer chess, etc.

As for consciousness depending on quantum mechanical properties... can't we model those on a computer?
 
Alkatran said:
As for consciousness depending on quantum mechanical properties... can't we model those on a computer?
Not on a conventional computer...at least not exactly for systems larger than about 30 electrons. --http://www.dwavesys.com/index.php?page=quantum-computing

www.dwavesys.com said:
...consider the modeling of a nanosized structure, such as a drug molecule, using conventional (i.e., non-quantum) computers. Solving the Schrödinger Equation (SE), the fundamental description of matter at the QM level, more than doubles in difficulty for every electron in the molecule. This is called exponential scaling, and prohibits solution of the SE for systems greater than about 30 electrons...This restriction makes first-principles modeling of molecular structures impossible, and has historically defined the boundary between physics (where the SE can be solved by brute force) and chemistry (where it cannot, and empirical modeling and human creativity must take over).

Quantum computers are capable of solving the SE with linear scaling exponentially faster and with exponentially less hardware than conventional computers...Results of these virtual reality simulations will be indistinguishable from what is seen in the real world, assuming that QM is an accurate picture of nature.

This type of simulation, by direct solution of the fundamental laws of nature, will become the backbone of engineering design in the nanotech regime where quantum mechanics reigns.
 
Aether said:
Not on a conventional computer...at least not exactly for systems larger than about 30 electrons. --http://www.dwavesys.com/index.php?page=quantum-computing

I wasn't talking about tractability, I was talking about computability. It doesn't matter, philosophically, if you can actually do the simulation. All that matters is if it is, in theory, possible. Consciousness slowed down by a factor of 10^10^100 is still consciousness.
 
Alkatran said:
I wasn't talking about tractability, I was talking about computability. It doesn't matter, philosophically, if you can actually do the simulation. All that matters is if it is, in theory, possible.
To which scientific theory of consciousness are you referring?

Consciousness slowed down by a factor of 10^10^100 is still consciousness.
Only to the extent that there is some objective measure of consciousness to begin with.
 

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