What Are the Key Differences in Symmetries of Triangles and Squares?

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    Square Symmetry
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the symmetries of triangles and squares, focusing on the differences in their symmetry groups, including rotations and reflections. Participants explore the implications of these symmetries on the adjacency of vertices and the construction of ordered sets representing these symmetries.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that a triangle has 3 rotations and 3 reflections, while a square has 4 rotations and 4 reflections, leading to different symmetry behaviors.
  • Another participant points out that symmetries must preserve adjacency of vertices, which rules out certain combinations for the square, such as (1,2,4,3).
  • A later reply expresses regret for initially overlooking the importance of edges in the discussion of symmetries.
  • One participant introduces the concept of the symmetry group of the square as the dihedral group D_4, mentioning confusion with the notation D_8.
  • There is a suggestion to explore the symmetry groups of the tetrahedron and the three-cube, questioning the relationship between groups acting on vertices and edges.
  • Another participant discusses the generation of symmetry groups using reflections and references Coxeter's method for classifying reflection groups, linking it to the classification of simple complex Lie algebras.
  • Several textbooks are recommended for further reading on groups, geometry, and symmetry theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of symmetries for triangles and squares, particularly regarding adjacency and the construction of ordered sets. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the broader implications of these symmetry groups.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of symmetry and adjacency, as well as unresolved mathematical steps related to the symmetry groups of more complex shapes.

Siberius
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Hi all,

I was thinking of symmetries today and this kept bugging me. I wonder if anyone can help me with this.

Consider the symmetries of a triangle. You can do 3 rotations and 3 reflections to get them all. Number the vertices, create an ordered set with 3 elements that contain the numbers of the vertices. Starting with the topmost and working clockwise you'd get (1,2,3), (2,3,1), etc. By doing all the symmetries you can get all possible combinations of three numbers.
Consider the symmetries of a square. You can do 4 rotations and 4 reflections to get them all. Do the same procedure as above, that is, number the vertices and construct the ordered sets. Now you don't end up with all possible combinations of 4 numbers. For example: number the top left hand side vertex 1, the top right hand side 2, the bottom right 3 and the bottom left 4. I cannot think of a way of getting the set (1,2,4,3). Can anyone?
 
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Any symmetry is going to preserve which vertices are adjacent to which others. So, while in a triangle, all edges are adjacent, so you can't use this to rule out any lists like (1,3,2), etc. as representing actual symmetries, for the square you can rule out (1,2,4,3) since this would make 2 adjacent to 4, which it isn't in the original square.
 
Yeah, I realized that I was ignoring the edges when re-thinking about this a few minutes later... I'm sorry for posting such a silly question :)
 
By the way, Siberius, the symmetry group of the square is the eight element dihedral group often denoted [itex]D_4[/itex] (confusingly, some authors denote this group [itex]D_8[/itex] but the former notation is definitely more common and IMO preferable).

Another point to remember: when you used reflections in computing the symmetry groups of the triangle and the cube, these are (as linear transformations) "improper" (they are isometries, but they don't have determinant one). The "proper" symmetry group correspond to an index two subgroup of the guys you found. Can you figure out the symmetry group of the tetrahedron and the three-cube? As permutation groups acting on the vertices, or alternatively, on the edges. (Would the group acting on the vertices be isomorphic to the group acting on the edges?)

I can't resist pointing out that you can generate the two groups you found (allowing "improper" isometries) using only reflections. This is related to the beautiful method of Coxeter for classifying such reflection groups, which turns out to be the same as Dynkin's method of classifying the simple complex Lie algebras. (Keyword: Coxeter-Dynkin diagrams.) Reflection groups have a very beautiful theory which is the subject of many books.

A very readable and fun high school textbook:

Groups and their Graphs, by Israel Grossman and Wilhelm Magnus, Mathematical Association of America, 1964.

Two very readable and fun undergraduate textbooks:

Permutation Groups by Peter J. Cameron, Cambridge University Press, 1999.

Groups and Geometry by Peter M. Neumann, Gabrielle A. Stoy, and the late Edward C. Thompson, Oxford University Press, 1994.

Kleinian geometry is also fun:

Transformation Geometry : an Introduction to Symmetry, by George E. Martin, Springer, 1982.
 
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