What are the probabilities of a die with an offset center of gravity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the probabilities associated with a die that has an offset center of gravity. Participants explore how this alteration affects the likelihood of each face landing face up, considering various physical properties and assumptions related to the die's behavior during a roll.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that with a perfectly symmetrical die, the probabilities of landing on each face are equal, but this changes when the center of gravity is offset.
  • One participant suggests that if the center of gravity is positioned between the center of the 1 face and the center of the 6 face, the probability of rolling a 6 increases, while the probabilities for 2, 3, 4, and 5 remain unchanged.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to consider factors such as the elasticity of the collision, the spin of the die, and the surface's slipperiness, which could affect the outcome.
  • A later reply estimates that under certain ideal conditions (inelastic collision, perfectly slippery surface, no angular momentum), the face directly below the center of gravity would likely end up facing down, leading to specific probability estimates.
  • One participant argues that if the die lands on faces 2, 3, 4, or 5, it would roll to show 6, suggesting that the odds of rolling a 6 could be significantly higher than 1/6.
  • Some participants assert that while the probabilities for a fair die are well-defined, calculating the probabilities for an off-center die remains a complex task that may require further exploration.
  • There is mention of calculating the solid angle subtended by each face relative to the new center of mass, which could provide insights into the probabilities of each face landing down.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how an offset center of gravity affects the probabilities of each face landing face up. There is no consensus on the exact probabilities or the implications of various physical factors, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about ideal conditions and the physical properties of the die, which may not hold in practical scenarios. The calculations and estimates presented depend on these assumptions and may not be universally applicable.

Ad VanderVen
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TL;DR
What about the odds with a die where the center of gravity is off-center?
With a pure die, all odds are equal. With a pure die, the center of gravity is exactly in the middle of the die. But what if the center of gravity is not in the center? How are the odds then. For example, how do the odds become if the center of gravity is exactly on the line that runs through the center of the 1 plane and the center of the 6 plane and then exactly in the middle between the center of the die and the center of the 6 plane. The probabilities of a 2, 3, 4 and 5 remain the same and the probability of a 6 will be greater than 1/6, but how big exactly?
 
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And we should also stipulate that the die is a perfect cube with no rounded corners or edges.
But still, we don't know how elastic the collision will be between the die and the surface; how much "spin" used to cast the die; and how slippery the surface is.
If we assume that the collision will be completely inelastic, the surface is perfectly slippery, and the throw never includes any angular momentum, then we might be able to estimate the result by considering all initial orientations of the die and tracing the center or gravity directly down. Our estimate would be that whichever face is directly below the center of gravity will be the one that ends up facing down.

Using that estimate (and estimating the arithmetic), a COG on the 1 dot would select 6 50% of the time, and 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 about 10% each.

Edit:
Actually, there's an easy way to calculate the odds for the case I described. If the die lands on 2, 3, 4, or 5, it is at best astable - and unless it lands perfectly on that side, it will immediately roll to show the six. On the other hand, if it lands with 1 up, it will always stay that way. So the odds become:
1: 1/6 (16.67%)
2 to 5: 0
6: 5/6 (83.33%)
 
Last edited:
Regardless of the physical properties of an actual die, you can still speak in probability theory of the different probabilities of the number of pips with a pure die, where the center of gravity is exactly in the middle. These probabilities are

P (X = k) = 1/6, k = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6.

Likewise, I think you should be able to calculate the probability for a pure die where the center of gravity is off-center.
 
Ad VanderVen said:
Regardless of the physical properties of an actual die, you can still speak in probability theory of the different probabilities of the number of pips with a pure die, where the center of gravity is exactly in the middle.
This is not a conclusion required by probability theory. If the conclusion can be reached, it would fall under the study of physics (a symmetry argument).

It is correct to say the terminology "fair die" is used in probability texts to mean a die where the probability of each face is 1/6. That is a convention of language.

Ad VanderVen said:
Likewise, I think you should be able to calculate the probability for a pure die where the center of gravity is off-center.

That would also be a topic for the physics sections of the forum.
 
As described and with no bounce or spin one can calculate the solid angle subtended by each face relative to the new center of mass: this will be proportional to the probability that that face ends up "down". Clearly 2,3,4,5 will be equal and less than 1/6. "1" will be even less and "6" will be the big winner.
The exercise. is left to the OP.
 
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