What are the rules for immigration into Japan?

[Prometheus]

Asian countries tend to have a different outlook toward immigration. I mean for thousands of years, not just currently. Japan, Korea, and China, they've all been hermit societies for thousands of years.

You have repeated "thousands of years" twice. I still have no idea what you are talking about. Even assuming the smallest number of thousands, two, what is your point? Japan and Korea, whatever such words might mean 2,000 years ago, were not hermit societies. Even the word society might be difficult, depending on what you might mean by this word. As for China, what does hermit society mean in their context? They devoured everything they came in contact with that they could control, and tried to keet out the rest, who usually came over the great wall.

Asia never intermingled the way Europe has and it seems unlikely they ever would.

I agree. The cultural and linguistic differences are far greater than in Europe.

They seem to advocate a closed door policy.

I don't understand why you think that it seems so.

 

[BlackVision]

Japan and Korea, whatever such words might mean 2,000 years ago, were not hermit societies.

Yes they were.

I agree. The cultural and linguistic differences are far greater than in Europe.

Well if you believe less social contact between countries is greater.

I don't understand why you think that it seems so.

You know absolutely nothing about Asia's history do you? Learn a little more and then come back. For starters google "Korea hermit" and see the thousands of pages that come back. The same can be done with China and Japan as well.

 

[Nereid]

You know absolutely nothing about Asia's history do you? Learn a little more and then come back. For starters google "Korea hermit" and see the thousands of pages that come back. The same can be done with China and Japan as well.

Results of googling 'China hermit' (as you suggest) reveal (a thoroughly inscientific analysis):
- lots of references to the Hermit Kingdom (= Korea) and China
- many references to hermits (individuals) who are Chinese (as in 'sages')
- a few odd references (someone seems to have given themselves - or their product - the name 'China hermit')
- just one reference to China emerging into a role in world trade negotiations, etc (i.e. something about contemporary international politics)
... but none about China being a hermit society, or closed and entirely inward-looking (except for this last ref). :surprise: Would it help to step through each of the Chinese dynasties - from the Chin, say - and look at the extent to which they were 'hermit societies'?

 

[BlackVision]

a thoroughly inscientific analysis

You meant "unscientific" right?

lots of references to the Hermit Kingdom (= Korea)

Ah so you've been able to find references that Korea was a Hermit Kingdom. Let's get that country out of the way now then.

As far as China, they were extraordinarily closed door. Europeans have on many occassions throughout history tried to have open trades with China, only for China to more often than not shut the door on them. China also never really bothered to explore the world around them because they believed everything they needed was right there inside their own country. I do not know of a country that China really intermingled with in it's history. Except maybe to fight wars with. China, like other Asian countries, really kept to themselves.

Japan was also very closed door but finally did open it's door in the 1800s. Not because they really wanted to but because they realized if they were going to be an economically and militarily powerful country, they needed to open trades with the West. And that is exactly what happened.

 

[Nereid]

You meant "unscientific" right?

You know what they say about imitation ...

Ah so you've been able to find references that Korea was a Hermit Kingdom. Let's get that country out of the way now then.

I agree that the discussion of whether Korea or Japan could be regarded as 'hermit societies' should be separated from a discussion about whether China is, or was, one such.

As far as China, they were extraordinarily closed door. Europeans have on many occassions throughout history tried to have open trades with China, only for China to more often than not shut the door on them. China also never really bothered to explore the world around them because they believed everything they needed was right there inside their own country. I do not know of a country that China really intermingled with in it's history. Except maybe to fight wars with. China, like other Asian countries, really kept to themselves.

Just to be clear then, from your perspective, reluctance to trade with Europeans is an example of what constitutes a 'hermit society'?

If you would care to broaden your perspective beyond Europe - which is, after all, quite distant from China - you will find that Chinese dynasties have engaged in widespread trade for millenia. For example, http://www.ess.uci.edu/~oliver/silk.html . Did you read the material on the Hui people (I provided a link in an earlier post)?

Regarding intermingling, you might like to read up on http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHEMPIRE/YUAN.HTM .

Regarding exploration, may I suggest some reading about http://www.chinapage.com/zhenghe.html (also called Zheng Ho; it's a question of how you transliterate the characters).

Finally, you may like to investigate the http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/chu/chinos/diaspora.html , both in the 19th and 20th century, and the preceeding millenia.

{note to those readers who do not wish to take the trouble to read up on these points: China has a very long and rich history of interaction with other nation states - in many cases through war, in many cases through trade, but also in religion (e.g. Xuan Zhang), exploration, and much else. Of course there were times when the Emperor had no interest in events outside his empire (other than to defend the frontiers).}

 

[BlackVision]

Of course there were times when the Emperor had no interest in events outside his empire (other than to defend the frontiers).}

That would actually be the majority of it's history. Asians tend to be very reserved. Something I believe is true even today.

 

[Dagenais]

And in Canada there aren't Asians that tend to live life the Canadian way?

In Canada, Asians can survive quite successfully without losing their culture at all. Take Richmond, British Columbia for example.

It's basically a more spacious Hong Kong. There are Chinese writings everywhere, even on the McDonalds. It's known as "China Town 2", except a lot nicer.

This is a reason why Canada is a place full of different cultures. As opposed to another Country known as "The Great Melting Pot." It's not hard to keep Asian culture at all in Ontario and B.C.

Besides, Quebec is vastly different than the rest of Canada, so I wouldn't really call those Asians completely, "Canadianized". At least you didn't ask me about Americanized Asians.

Only 4,000 Koreans in the entire providence of Quebec. How many could you possibly run into?

Unless those 4000 Koreans speak fluent French, they'd be found in Montreal with the rest of the immigrants and English speakers.

Montreal is the city where most of the English speakers are. There is a lot of debate going on between the native French speakers and the Quebecois that welcome new cultures.

Wikipedia:

As with all major North American cities, however, a great number of people have a different first language from the majority. About 18.4% of the population of the Greater Montreal Area are of allophone mother tongue and 13.8% are native anglophone. On the island of Montreal, the percentage of anglophones rises to 18.8% while that of allophones reaches 27.7%. A majority of allophones speak French or English as a second language. A May 2004 survey noted that 53% of the people in Montreal speak both French and English, while 37% speak only French and 7% speak only English.

Unless the Korean you are referring to speaks great French, he'll have extreme difficulties outside of Montreal.

 

[Nereid]

That would actually be the majority of it's history. Asians tend to be very reserved. Something I believe is true even today.

That seems to be an unambiguous assertion (actually two) - overlooking the typo ("it's" = "it is", or "it has", or "it was"; none of which make sense here, but "its" does).

Please provide support for the first assertion.

 

[Andre]

You would not believe the errors that MS-word thesaurus induces about "its" and "it's"

 

[Prometheus]

You know absolutely nothing about Asia's history do you?

You know absolutely nothing about Asia's history do you?

As far as China, they were extraordinarily closed door. Europeans have on many occassions throughout history tried to have open trades with China, only for China to more often than not shut the door on them.

More often than not? That is extraordinary, isn't it!

China also never really bothered to explore the world around them because they believed everything they needed was right there inside their own country.

You are dreaming. If you have a point, you sure do not know how to make it.

I do not know of a country that China really intermingled with in it's history. Except maybe to fight wars with. China, like other Asian countries, really kept to themselves.

India. Tibet. Mongolia. Korea. Vietnam. United States.

Japan was also very closed door but finally did open it's door in the 1800s. Not because they really wanted to but because they realized if they were going to be an economically and militarily powerful country, they needed to open trades with the West. And that is exactly what happened.

Of the thousands of pages that you discovered available to read on the Internat, you picked the wrong one to read and base your garbage on. Japan did not welcome Commodore Perry because they realized that they wanted to do anything. You don't understand what happened at all, do you? Your entire premise is rubbish. Half of the Japanese language when Japane opened its door, as you say, is based on Chinese, as is the Japanese writing system. Where did Buddhism come from? Japan interacted with these neighbors. Japan tried to interact with the Europeans, but the Tokugawa realized that trade was not all that was on the mind of the "traders".

You know absolutely nothing about Asia's history do you? But you sure do like to pretend. What, did you read some article on the Internet, and that qualifies you to pretend that you know more than everyone else and that they know nothing? Are you in elementary school? Perhaps I should tell your mommy what you are doing.

 

[BlackVision]

Unless those 4000 Koreans speak fluent French, they'd be found in Montreal with the rest of the immigrants and English speakers.

4,000 in a city the size of Montreal is still extraordinarily small don't you think? A fraction of a percentage.

 

[BlackVision]

That seems to be an unambiguous assertion (actually two) - overlooking the typo ("it's" = "it is", or "it has", or "it was"; none of which make sense here, but "its" does).

Are you going for the Evo tactic once she loses a debate?

Please provide support for the first assertion.

I already have.

 

[BlackVision]

You know absolutely nothing about Asia's history do you?

More so than you apparently.

You are dreaming. If you have a point, you sure do not know how to make it.

Oh really? Please give a list of countries where China has had strong diplomatic ties with in it's history. Good luck.

India. Tibet. Mongolia. Korea. Vietnam. United States.

Right because these are similar to the relationships England, France, and Germany has had throughout their history.

Are you in elementary school? Perhaps I should tell your mommy what you are doing.

Moderator feel free to delete this post as well.

 

[Monique]

Please stop the childish I know more than you games.

China, Korea and Japan are all three very different countries: it isn't that strange that they have their own identity.

Not more so than calling Korean, Chinese or Japanese. Koreans are deeply offended if they're mistaken for Chinese or Japanese.

What happens if you call a Canadian American? A Dutchman Belgian? I got called American and I didn't like it. On the otherhand I worked with Korean, Japanese and Chinese guys in a single lab and there never was any friction between them.

The topic of the thread is about immigration into Japan: does anyone know what the rules are to be able to immigrate? For the US there is a point system: if you have a technical profession background you get extra points to enter, among other things. The US also uses a system that limits the number of visa applications per country: the Chinese restriction 2 yrs ago was a big stir-up.