What are the rules to know when to use absolute value?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of absolute values in integration problems, particularly in the context of integrating functions involving trigonometric expressions. Participants explore when absolute values are necessary and the implications of their usage in various scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the indefinite integral of cos(x)/(sin(x) + 1) is ln(sin(x) + 1) + C, questioning the necessity of absolute values in this case.
  • Another participant corrects the integrand notation and states that the integral should include absolute values, suggesting that they are generally necessary unless specific conditions are met.
  • A participant expresses confusion over the inconsistency in answers found in worksheets regarding the use of absolute values, indicating that some solutions include them while others do not.
  • One participant provides an example of integrating 1/x, explaining that absolute values are not needed if the variable x is known to be positive within the limits of integration.
  • There is a discussion about the need for parentheses in the integrand notation, with multiple participants agreeing on the importance of proper notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of absolute values in integration, with some arguing they are required in general while others suggest they can be omitted under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding a definitive rule for when to use absolute values.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the necessity of absolute values may depend on the specific functions being integrated and their defined ranges, but do not reach a consensus on a general rule.

Fancypen
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Specifically when doing integration problems. I know the indef integral of cosx/sinx+1 is ln(sinx+1) + C, but absvalue is not required here. I think it's because the sine fn must be >= 0 or it's undefined? What about in other cases, is there a general rule to know when to use absvalue?

Thanks
 
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Fancypen said:
Specifically when doing integration problems. I know the indef integral of cosx/sinx+1 is ln(sinx+1) + C
The integrand should be written as cosx/(sinx + 1). Without parentheses what you wrote is ##\frac{cosx}{sinx} + 1 = cotx + 1##.

Also, ##\int \frac{\cos(x) dx}{\sin(x) + 1} = \ln|\sin(x) + 1| + C##
Fancypen said:
, but absvalue is not required here.
You really should have it, unless there is information given that it's not needed.
Fancypen said:
I think it's because the sine fn must be >= 0 or it's undefined?
No, that's not true. ##-1 \le \sin(x) \le 1##. Take a look at a graph of y = sin(x).
Fancypen said:
What about in other cases, is there a general rule to know when to use absvalue?

Thanks
 
I see. So the answer SHOULD have it. We actually don't use a book, so the answers I find to the worksheet problems aren't consistent. Some use absvalue and some do not.

There definitely should be a parenthesis around the denominator there. I am aware, but neglected it!

Thanks
 
\int \frac{1}{x}dx= ln|x|+ C. If you know that x will not be negative then you do not need the absolute values.

For example, \int_1^2 \frac{1}{x}dx= \left[ln(x)\right]_1^2= ln(2). Since x runs between 1 and 2, it is never negative and the absolute value is not needed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Fancypen said:
There definitely should be a parenthesis around the denominator there.
In fact, there should be two of them -- parentheses -- not just a single parenthesis. :oldbiggrin:
 
Last edited:
Mark44 said:
In fact, there should be two of them -- parentheses -- not just a single parenthesis. :oldbiggrin:
Yeah, one set around the the angle of sine too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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