What Are Your Best Mind-Boggling Questions?

[ThomasT]

hi all,
i want you to post best mind boggling/twisting questions you know of.
Thanks
dpa

What is it, exactly, wrt Bell-type LR formulations of quantum entanglement, that causes Bell inequality violations?

 

[ThomasT]

Why is it that sometimes my pain pills work one day and not the next for the same symptom?

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that you require pain medication. But how, exactly, does one get pain medication? I've experienced some rather severely painful intervals during flareups of my ulcerative colitis/Crohn's disease, but the VA is quite reluctant to administer pain medication. Anyway, it's in remission now so no problem. My generic pain medication is brewsky.

Apparently, from what I gather, real pain medication is sort of inversely effective. The more you take, the more you need.

Please be careful with the stuff, as I trust you are.

And, wrt the thread topic, I'm willing to bet that the OP can't answer any of the sorts of questions he/she's asking for.

 

[skippy1729]

A short mind boggling answer:

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is.

Yogi Berra

 

[ThomasT]

A short mind boggling answer:

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is.

Yogi Berra

Ok, so, in theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there's often a difference between theory and practice. But it's practice, not theory, that decides the truth of things. Fact: theories are sometimes wrong. So, the theory that there's no difference between theory and practice is wrong.

Yogi should have reasoned this out before making his statement. But, as we all know, Yogi's statements weren't intended to inform, but, rather, to entertain.

 

[DaveC426913]

Ok, so, in theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there's often a difference between theory and practice. But it's practice, not theory, that decides the truth of things. Fact: theories are sometimes wrong. So, the theory that there's no difference between theory and practice is wrong.

Well, in theory at least..

 

[DaveC426913]

Wait. What? When did we start talking about two individuals having some sort of connection?

This bothers me because Identical twins aren't both on the inside of both bodies looking out. The are identical but separate. Assuming you could be reassembled twice at exactly the same time from exactly the same pattern I still can't perceive that you would be inside both bodies looking at yourself or even being able to switch back and forth.

You wouldn't! Where did you get this idea?

Clones are incredibly close but not the same consciousness. it's true you couldn't be assembled at the same place as well as at the same time but I somehow suspect that if you were disassembled you would be no longer there period. You would "die". And the reassembled "clone" for want of a better term would be your twin but not you.

Define "you" in a rational way.

"You" is the collection of molecules that makes up your brain/body.

But the weirdest part of the whole thing is that this twin would have all your memories, perceptions, thought processes and so on but i think it would be your identical clone, not you.

Wait. When did we start talking about clones? That's a completely different beast. A clone does not share anything with the original except DNA.

OK, I see. You're using the term "clone" loosely.

If you were transported and duplicated, there would be no original, there would be two copies. this is actually what you were saying just above. "You" cease to be while the machine is disassembling and reassembling. But when it's done, there are two identical collections of molecules in the shape of "you", neither of which can claim to be the original. The ST:TNG ep 'Second Chances' is an excellent example of this. Both Rykers are equally the original. Both have completely consistent memories culminating in the present. Neither has any claim to being more original than the other.

 

[netgypsy]

As was said, the point is, if this could be done, two new identical consciousnesses would be created but "you" would no long exist in the sense that I am now inside my body looking out, as this would cease if I were disassembled, and would not be recovered in the two new identicals. So now the question is WHY?

The twin study of long distance communication between two DNA identicals besides cell phone would be quite interesting. I do not at this point have any data that leads me to believe it can happen but I do feel there are refinements of the senses, combinations of them and so on that we don't have data on yet that cause fish, flocks and herds to act as a unit rather than an individual.

One more interesting ramification of the disassembly and reassembly, if two new identicals were produced, could the family, spouse, children tell that the original was gone and how might they deal with having two where there was one.

Which leads to another interesting question - cells divide by binary fission so I see no immediate reason why an entire human couldn't do the same and produce two where there is now one using this method. (To add to the mix, I seem to recall a study which indicated memory can be passed on by eating part of an individual - the study was with lower order species but a behavior was trained, then the trained individual was fed to the untrained which then exhibited the behavior of the trained individual.) Of course there are technical difficulties in a case like this, but assuming it could be done, which one would the original "be inside looking out of"? Or would the original "die" and why? Again, from a physical point of view.

 

[netgypsy]

With regard to the pain medication this is a question that has been asked many doctors and researchers and they have some very interesting answers.

First of all the more anxious and stimulated the individual is, the more difficult it is to both sedate and relieve pain in that individual. When a friend was quite small she went into surgery to have her tonsils out and she was so stressed she could not be sedated enough to lose consciousness. Her mother was actually present and saw this.

Why is this true? It seems that pain medications don't directly stop pain but rather cause the body to produce its own chemicals which then stop the pain. So anything that interferes with the body's production of these chemicals will stop the pain meds from working.

Another friend went to a pain clinic to deal with chronic pain issues. There were several aspects in the treatment including physical and psychological.

For physical problems the line of first defense you might say was ice. Ice was the number 1 most successful treatment for all sorts of pain. It even works on migraines although it makes them worse for the first five minutes so I don't use it unless I'm totally desperate. The second was distraction. When the individual is participating in something which requires focus, the pain moves to the background and simply becomes less important.

Another facet of the treatment was dealing with fear concerning the cause of the pain. When I had braces and the arch wire was changed my entire jaw throbbed for about 24 hours but as I had no fear about the cause of the pain I was able to ignore it. If the source of the pain is well known and not any health danger, then hypnosis can be used again to help the body help itself. (I discovered that if I took ibuprofen 30 minutes before I went to the orthodontist it pretty much stopped the problem.)

So the main medical problem with pain is inflammation but unless you deal with all the other issues connected with the pain including the cause, it can't be controlled to the point where you get your life back.

So assuming all the other issues have been dealt with, there is no fear connected with the pain and no health issues that are life threatening, how can one deal with the inflammation?

Ice does reduce inflammation of all sorts.

Anti inflammatories do this also and there are many of these from the NSAIDS to low doses of antibiotics like erythromicin and several others (40mg vs 500mg for killing bacteria), and prescription opiates, muscle relaxants and so on.

DMSO liquid or gel, which is topical and cheap and does not affect the liver or digestive system generally (the smell is weird and really bothers some people - I just mouth breathe) and is a very very strong spot anti inflammatory (google it and ask your doctor because it's only "on label" for interstitial cyctitis) for things like smashing your thumb with a hammer. It can relieve inflammation so well that a dead lame horse will be walking by the next day. (obviously the horse has no broken bones or torn soft tissue)

You can only use it on a clean, chemical free area because it takes other chemicals into the body with it. It's used on horses quite often to take antibiotics and things like topical cortisone into injured areas and it's used IV in animals for catastrophic problems and after surgery. You can smell it a block away.

So there are many many reasons pain meds don't always work and one of the best things that can be done is to deal with the pain before it becomes unbearable, not after.

Dentists can tell you a great deal about pain and pain management because they won't have any patients if they can't manage pain. Mine told me that regular dentists frequently reach a point where they cannot control the pain and they have to send their patient to a specialist who has a lot more weapons to deal with it.

So those of you who have this inconsistent response to pain meds - there's a very good reason for it.

 

[DaveC426913]

As was said, the point is, if this could be done, two new identical consciousnesses would be created but "you" would no long exist in the sense that I am now inside my body looking out, as this would cease if I were disassembled, and would not be recovered in the two new identicals.

Yes it would. You asked for physics, not philosophy or religion. Any identical copy of your body and brain will truly be "you". Multiple copies will all be "you".

The twin study of long distance communication between two DNA identicals besides cell phone would be quite interesting.

Not if you want to stick to your original tenet of 'phyics please, not philosophy or religion'. It would be a very short discussion.

I do not at this point have any data that leads me to believe it can happen

Yes. This should have a period on the end, and a paragraph break.

but I do feel there are refinements of the senses, combinations of them and so on that we don't have data on yet that cause fish, flocks and herds to act as a unit rather than an individual.

What? Of course we do.

One more interesting ramification of the disassembly and reassembly, if two new identicals were produced, could the family, spouse, children tell that the original was gone

They're not gone.

Which leads to another interesting question - cells divide by binary fission so I see no immediate reason why an entire human couldn't do the same and produce two where there is now one using this method.

You don't see any reason? humans - heck, vertebrates - are vastly more complex than single celled organisms. It's like saying I can walk to the store so I see no reason why I can't walk to A. Centauri. Walking does not scale up.

(To add to the mix, I seem to recall a study which indicated memory can be passed on by eating part of an individual - the study was with lower order species but a behavior was trained, then the trained individual was fed to the untrained which then exhibited the behavior of the trained individual.)

Yes. Flatworms.

No. Chopping up humans and feeding them to other humans does not imbue the cannibals with the memories of the hapless victims.

Flatworms don't have brains. They're a walk to the store. It is not simply a matter of "scaling up" to more complex organisms - any more than getting to A.Centauri is a scaling up of the walk to the store.

 

[netgypsy]

Yes it would. You asked for physics, not philosophy or religion. Any identical copy of your body and brain will truly be "you". Multiple copies will all be "you".
Not if it was created at different place or different time. What makes me, me, is physical. The fact that I'm inside looking out is physical. So why should I not be inside all of them looking out? Because they were created at a different time or place? I don't consider the fact that I'm "inside" this body looking out to be religious or philosophical. I consider it to be a physical fact. I stick my finger and it hurts. I'm inside looking out. That's physical. We don't adequately understand how we get inside one entity but why does the fact that we don't understand it make it "not physical". We don't understand a lot of things but that doesn't mean they aren't physical.


Not if you want to stick to your original tenet of 'phyics please, not philosophy or religion'. It would be a very short discussion.

A twin study would be done using PET or MRI and determining if there is a physical connection over a distance. It may have already been done but I haven't read about it. Not that difficult. What does it have to do with religion or philosophy?


Yes. This should have a period on the end, and a paragraph break.

And your point is?


What? Of course we do.

Then please share the study that indicates how multiple members of flocks and herds react at the same time when all cannot see or hear the the disturbance that caused the deviation in the first place.




They're not gone.

I'm dead according to the definition of dead meaning my physical body is no longer a functioning organism. The duplicates are not even identical if they aren't created at the same place in the same time. Any time delay between destruction and creation of the organism will have an effect.


You don't see any reason? humans - heck, vertebrates - are vastly more complex than single celled organisms. It's like saying I can walk to the store so I see no reason why I can't walk to A. Centauri. Walking does not scale up.

Don't assume that I don't know the difference between a single cell and human/vertebrate. Theoretically is there a reason this cannot be done? Is there a law of physics that would violated?


Yes. Flatworms.

No. Chopping up humans and feeding them to other humans does not imbue the cannibals with the memories of the hapless victims.

Flatworms don't have brains. They're a walk to the store. It is not simply a matter of "scaling up" to more complex organisms - any more than getting to A.Centauri is a scaling up of the walk to the store.

And I never indicated that feeding the brains of humans to other humans would impart knowledge from the source brain to the receptor brain. I brought up the study because it was interesting. You drew the conclusion, not I. But as we study memory is there any law of physics violated by the concept that memory can be transferred from one individual to another?

 

[DaveC426913]

You drew the conclusion, not I.

You said:

Which leads to another interesting question - cells divide by binary fission so I see no immediate reason why an entire human couldn't do the same and produce two where there is now one using this method. (To add to the mix, I seem to recall a study which indicated memory can be passed on by eating part of an individual - the study was with lower order species but a behavior was trained, then the trained individual was fed to the untrained which then exhibited the behavior of the trained individual.) Of course there are technical difficulties in a case like this, but assuming it could be done,

The implication is pretty hard to interpret any other way:
"I see no reason why humans couldn't divide by fission..."
"... lower order species had their trained behavior fed to others untrained...etc"
"of course there are technical difficulties in a case like this, but assuming it could be done"

So, what exactly does it refer to?Oh. OK, it turns out that is what you meant:

But as we study memory is there any law of physics violated by the concept that memory can be transferred from one individual to another?

Why bother telling me I jumped to a conclusion if it was the correct conclusion?

Anyway, addressing the question you asked:

is there any law of physics violated by the concept that memory can be transferred from one individual to another?

Individual what? Human? If you don't want to people to misinterpret you, you must be explicit with your terms.

No it can't happen. The amount of brain matter required to be considered a discrete memory in a higher order life form is far too large to be absorbed through the wall of the digestive tract, or make it intact through the circulatory system or past the blood-brain barrier. And after all that, the brain does not build its neuronal net by attaching stray neuronal fragments of material to itself.

 

[netgypsy]

Here's another one that probably has been answered but I haven't come across it. If a bird is raised from egg by a different species with no contact with any of its own species, will it produce sound like the adopted species, like it's native species, or somewhere between?

Additional relevant info - birds of the same species in an isolated location develop "accents" particular to that population.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Here's another one that probably has been answered but I haven't come across it. If a bird is raised from egg by a different species with no contact with any of its own species, will it produce sound like the adopted species, like it's native species, or somewhere between?

If it's a mockingbird, I guess it will emulate the songs of other birds as usual. Some species of Cuckoo lay their eggs in the nests of other birds. I assume the offspring produce sound like a Cuckoo.

 

[BobG]

Knowing how many Trekkies are out there I'm most interested in conclusions that have been reached on this question. Assuming one could be "beamed up" like in "Beam me up Scotty", obviously the entire pattern of atoms in your body is recorded, disassembled, then reassembled in that precise pattern. the question is, if it happened to you, when you were reassembled, would you still be on the inside looking out?

And one could take this one step further. If you were accidentally reassembled twice, which one would you be inside looking out of? One, none or both??

Assuming the answer is none, who would be inside the newly reassembled being?? Physically speaking would it be alive? If not why not?

And I'm interested in this problem from the point of view of physics, not philosophy or religion.

Actually, I'm not interested in any of this.

What I want to know is why I can't receive faxes just because my fax is out of paper? Why should that affect whether my friend can beam me his term paper?

And if I can't receive faxes when I'm out of paper, does that mean I have to have the ingredients on hand in order for a person to be beamed up to my mother ship? What happens if the Carbon dispenser runs dry before I've been completely reassembled?

 

[Pete54]

What is the human condition?

 

[Pete54]

How is it that humans are capable of loving selfless and cooperative behaviour and hold these as the ideals of life but when it comes to living our lives seem to be completely unable to live with these ideals??

 

[netgypsy]

Last question first - transferring memory from one individual to another - first of all it would be a higher order species with a real brain. Second - the transfer of memory does not have to be done by removing it from one and moving it to another. It can be done by recreating what the memory is composed of in one, in another similar individual (preferable a clone or DNA identical so the outcome isn't muddied), and since higher order species have the building blocks already present in their body to build memory it would be a matter of building the memory from the pattern in the donor individual. A bit like ghosting a hard drive. You would not have to remove it from the donor. Merely build the same in the recipient.

 

[BobG]

How is it that humans are capable of loving selfless and cooperative behaviour and hold these as the ideals of life but when it comes to living our lives seem to be completely unable to live with these ideals??

Perhaps because...

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is."

 

[netgypsy]

Pete54 - no we don't always fail and we don't always succeed. Environment is a factor because certain environments can trigger certain types of behavior but remember we are hardwired as a normal human to care for our "extended family" and to find those who are not part of our extended family, a threat so people raised in a very restricted environment where this threat from outsiders is constantly a part of their life are going to be more aggressive to more people than others who have a very large extended family from birth with pretty much no feeling of threat from outsiders in their daily life. and the economically advantaged can afford to be more benevolent than those who don't even have enough food or shelter. We're a fairly predictable species overall. It's the individual who'll get you every time by deviating from the norm when you least expect it.

 

[checkitagain]

And I never indicated that feeding the brains of humans
to other humans would impart knowledge from the
source brain to the receptor brain.

A Brain Bug from "Starship Troopers" can get info by ingesting
brain matter from a human.

Spoiler: Please do not click on this link if you don't want to see
a scene from "Starship Troopers."


Some bad language
Graphic violence

 

[Pete54]

Thanks netgypsy

 

[Pete54]

Has anyone seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA&list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D&index=1&feature=plpp_video

This guy is a bit interesting.