What books should I be reading if I want to recreate the Daedalus 88? (human powered flight)

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges and resources needed to recreate the Daedalus 88, a human-powered aircraft developed by MIT students in 1988. Participants explore the theoretical, practical, and historical aspects of building such an aircraft, while also addressing the necessary skills and knowledge required for the endeavor.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Michael seeks recommendations for books and resources to aid in building the Daedalus 88, noting his background in software engineering and limited math and physics knowledge.
  • Some participants suggest starting with resources linked on the Wikipedia page and archived materials related to the Daedalus project.
  • There are discussions about the feasibility of building the aircraft, with some arguing that replicating the craft may be more realistic than creating a more efficient version.
  • One participant mentions the importance of physical fitness for piloting the aircraft and suggests training on a road bike to build stamina.
  • Several participants highlight the historical context of the original project, including the challenges faced by the Wright brothers and the extensive resources required for the Daedalus project.
  • There is a suggestion to look into the theses of the students who worked on the Daedalus project for detailed insights into the construction process.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the adequacy of certain recommended books, arguing they do not specifically address human-powered flight or the Daedalus project.
  • One participant humorously critiques the relevance of unrelated book suggestions, emphasizing the need for focused resources.
  • Concerns are raised about the significant costs, time, and effort involved in such a project, referencing the original Daedalus project’s funding and collaborative nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of opinions on the feasibility of recreating the Daedalus 88, with some believing it is possible to replicate the craft while others are more skeptical. There is no consensus on the best resources or books to read, as different participants recommend various materials and express differing views on their relevance.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the limitations of available resources and the challenges of accessing specific historical documents related to the Daedalus project. There is also an acknowledgment of the evolving nature of materials and techniques since the original aircraft was built.

mad_theologian
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
TL;DR
See title
Daedalus 88 is a human powered aircraft built in 1988 by MIT students. I'm trying to find research papers describing the construction process but can't find anything.

So I'm asking here: what books should I be reading to start building this? I

My math skills are up to basic calculus. Last time I learned physics was high school and it wasn't calculus based. My engineering experience is 10 years of experience as a software engineer, though I have quit coding.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

Michael
 
Physics news on Phys.org
What in particular are you looking for? The theory behind the design decisions?
I'd honestly recommend starting with the sources in the Wikipedia page, especially some of the archived pages they have listed. There's some much more extensive listings of resources there.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: berkeman
Welcome to PF.

mad_theologian said:
So I'm asking here: what books should I be reading to start building this?
Are you planning on flying this craft yourself, or getting a semi-pro bicycle athlete to fly it? How good is your bicycle fitness? :smile:
 
berkeman said:
Welcome to PF.


Are you planning on flying this craft yourself, or getting a semi-pro bicycle athlete to fly it? How good is your bicycle fitness? :smile:
Ha, I've always been athletic. Maybe I can produce a more efficient aircraft
 
mad_theologian said:
Maybe I can produce a more efficient aircraft
Not likely, IMO. Probably the best you can do is try to reproduce the craft, and train your behind off riding your road bike for a few months on challenging uphill courses to build your power and stamina. You won't be crossing any English Channels or similar, but maybe you could duplicate something like the Wright Brothers' first flight at Kitty Hawk. :wink:

 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: AlexB23 and Flyboy
Duplicate thread start merged into existing thread
Webpage: https://web.mit.edu/drela/Public/web/hpa/

I'm trying to see if I have everything I need, though I'm a (former) software engineer, not aeronautics engineer. So I need some hand holding, at least at the beginning.

Thanks in advance
 
I think asking the question answers the question; no. More specifically I don't see anything there about how to actually build the aircraft.

My question is; why are you asking this question? If you think that website gives you what you need, why don't you just go build it? If you try and are missing something, I think it will quickly become clear to you.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sbrothy, Vanadium 50, jrmichler and 1 other person
mad_theologian said:
Can a human powered aircraft be built using this webpage alone?
Possibly, if you had all the resources of MIT in 1988 available to you.

But that was 30 years ago: there are better start points (and much better construction materials) available now. I'm surprised your research so far has not turned up the British Human Powered Flying Club or https://www.humanpoweredflight.co.uk/
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: AlexB23, phinds, sbrothy and 2 others
  • #11
sbrothy said:
Going through the projectrho.com entry on Daedalus
That's a different Project Daedalus (human powered interstellar travel would be ... interesting).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Vanadium 50, sbrothy and AlexB23
  • #12
pbuk said:
That's a different Project Daedalus (human powered interstellar travel would be ... interesting).
oh yeah, I missed the 88 in there. I'm afraid that'll make the task even more difficult, if not downright impossible!
 
  • #13
mad_theologian said:
So I'm asking here: what books should I be reading to start building this?
Welcome, Michael!

Why do you want to take such a huge and costly challenge?
Rather than building their prototypes, the biggest problems the Wright brothers faced were designing effective and consistent controls, and learning to fly the artifacts without getting killed.
And they had none of the modern legal and government regulations.

Copied from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Daedalus

"Construction of Light Eagle took 15,000 hours work by 18 members of MIT."

"The flight ended in the water..., when increasing gusty winds caused a torsional failure of the tail boom. Lacking control, the airplane then pitched nose-up, and another gust caused a failure of the main wing spar. The pilot swam to shore."

"The pilot used a hydration drink during flight. This feat was equivalent to two back-to-back marathons."

This website is very complete:
https://www.av8n.com/how/

There are many good aerodynamic books available nowadays.
Studying those seriously would be a great first step.
Your local library may have several of those.

Regarding energy efficient flight, study the creatures mastering it:

Bird Flight Performance
A Practical Calculation Manual
By Colin J. Pennycuick · 1989

Avian Flight
By John J. Videler · 2006

:cool:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: AlexB23 and russ_watters
  • #14
I will answer the question asked, but I suspect fruitlessly.

Step 1 - find the names of the students who worked on this.
Step 2 - order a copy of their theses, probably from whatever University Microfilms calls themselves these days..
Step 3 - Read. These are likely to be the most complete descriptions there are.

In addition to what worked, the these will likely provide some inofmation on what did not work. That might be even more valuable.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Likes   Reactions: AlexB23, russ_watters and Tom.G
  • #15
mad_theologian said:
TL;DR Summary: See title

Daedalus 88 is a human powered aircraft built in 1988 by MIT students. I'm trying to find research papers describing the construction process but can't find anything.

So I'm asking here: what books should I be reading to start building this? I

My math skills are up to basic calculus. Last time I learned physics was high school and it wasn't calculus based. My engineering experience is 10 years of experience as a software engineer, though I have quit coding.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

Michael
Well, for building a plane in general, maybe try reading René Alderliesten - Introduction to Aerospace Structures and Materials. It is open access.

Source:
https://open.umn.edu/opentextbooks/textbooks/647
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Lnewqban
  • #16
That book has nothing on Daedelus and nothing on human-powered flight.
 
  • #17
Vanadium 50 said:
That book has nothing on Daedelus and nothing on human-powered flight.
Yeah, but it helps one understand how building planes work. One needs to know the basics of planes before moving onto building a human powered plane.
 
  • #18
And "The big book of kitty names" helps one name one's cat.

It's OK not to know the answer to a question. Doesn't mean you have to still answer it.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PhDeezNutz and AlexB23
  • #19
Vanadium 50 said:
And "The big book of kitty names" helps one name one's cat.

It's OK not to know the answer to a question. Doesn't mean you have to still answer it.
I understand sir, so I am backing out of this one.
 
  • #20
I suggest you count the cost first in money, effort and time. The project involved many people, students, staff, support experts and cost a lot of money and two years of design and building and that's after previous prototypes were developed. About 685k was donated in cash in addition to equipment and supplies. Consider for example what it would cost just to rent the space to build and store such a machine!

https://web.mit.edu/drela/Public/web/hpa/SG_HPAG_daedalus.pdf
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
Replies
8
Views
9K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
9K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K