What Can You Do to Stop the Cruelty of Fur?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the ethical implications of fur use, particularly in light of graphic footage depicting animal cruelty. Participants express a range of opinions on fur, leather, and animal welfare, exploring the morality of using animal products and the role of organizations like PETA in these debates.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express disgust at graphic footage of animal cruelty, calling for action against fur use.
  • Others share personal views on fur, with one participant stating that women in fur coats appear unappealing to them.
  • There are claims that the discussion may reflect anti-Chinese sentiments rather than a focus solely on fur.
  • Some participants argue that traditional fur use should be respected, while others question the morality of such practices.
  • Concerns are raised about the appropriateness of discussing graphic content in the forum.
  • Participants debate the ethics of wool production, with some arguing it is humane and necessary for sheep welfare, while others criticize PETA's stance on animal products.
  • There are mixed feelings about leather use, with some participants suggesting that as long as the killing is humane, using animal products is acceptable.
  • Some participants share personal anecdotes about animal care and the benefits of wool, contrasting it with fur.
  • Discussions about the environmental impact of wool versus synthetic materials are also present, with some arguing wool is more eco-friendly.
  • There is a suggestion that the links to the graphic footage should be reinstated for a more informed discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of views on fur and animal products, with no clear consensus reached. Disagreements exist regarding the ethics of fur and wool, the role of PETA, and the appropriateness of graphic content in discussions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the implications of their statements regarding animal welfare and the potential for being banned from the forum for discussing sensitive topics.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in animal rights, ethical consumption, and the environmental impact of animal products may find this discussion relevant.

qspeechc
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I just saw this clip seconds ago, and I was utterly disgusted by this. This footage is gruesome. DO NOT WATCH IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE. I'm not kidding.
Please, let us unite to do something about this. Sadly, I don't know what exactly needs to be done.
 
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I never wear fur. It's so passe. To me, women in fur coats look like hookers.
 
Seems more anti-chinese than anti-fur. This is why I don't like Chinese people :wink:

edit: MIH is right. Women in fur really do look like prostitutes.
 
It won't load for me. I wouldn't like to deny a person living by traditional means their fur coat however.
 
Er, just to add this- is this kind of posting allowed? I'm afraid I'll get banned for this or something :rolleyes:
 
PETA threads normally generate flame wars, we've had a number of them and they have to be closed. Since I can't view the links right now, I'll let another moderator decide if it is too graphic.
 
It's pretty graphic. It's worse than the clips of the meat packing industry cruelty, IMO.
 
Evo said:
PETA threads normally generate flame wars, we've had a number of them and they have to be closed. Since I can't view the links right now, I'll let another moderator decide if it is too graphic.

I moved the time in the video to a random place in the video and it showed a chinese guy stomping the guts out of a raccoon's head. Graphic enough?
 
jhicks said:
I moved the time in the video to a random place in the video and it showed a chinese guy stomping the guts out of a raccoon's head. Graphic enough?
Ok, based on that, I'm removing the links, but let's continue the discussion.
 
  • #10
jhicks said:
I moved the time in the video to a random place in the video and it showed a chinese guy stomping the guts out of a raccoon's head. Graphic enough?

I've never stomped on a raccoon's head, but I did have a Davy Crockett coonskin cap I wore on my head. small world
 
  • #11
My 15-1/2 YO daughter is a vegan. She shows this stuff to me all the time. She knows I'm a softie and I can't stomach to watch.

Some of the clips, especially those from overseas, are just beyond sickening.

I suspect I'll be vegan, or maybe just vegetarian, before too long. But I could never wear fur - I find it repulsive.
 
  • #12
One time i saw a vet wearing a horse glove.
 
  • #13
I find most fur repulsive, but I've got some slippers made from baby seals that I'll fight to keep.
 
  • #14
The best action to take is to stop believing PETA's propaganda in any way represents reality. Now they're complaining about wool...yeesh...you get wool by giving the sheep the equivalent of a haircut, which they need to not get too hot in summer anyway, and send them merrily back out to pasture.
 
  • #15
It's actually cruel to leave certain breeds of sheep unshorn for long periods.
Where I'm from there are churro sheep with four (read: 4) horns, that when left too long unshorn in pasture cannot walk very well. They start to look like cotton balls with toothpicks stuck in them.

Pictures:
http://www.ausbcomp.com/redman/churro_project.htm
 
  • #16
jim mcnamara said:
It's actually cruel to leave certain breeds of sheep unshorn for long periods.
Where I'm from there are churro sheep with four (read: 4) horns, that when left too long unshorn in pasture cannot walk very well. They start to look like cotton balls with toothpicks stuck in them.

Pictures:
http://www.ausbcomp.com/redman/churro_project.htm

Not to mention how absolutely FILTHY wool gets. For simple hygiene you need to get it off the sheep (we shear before lambing around here, so the ewes aren't completely filthy when the lambs are being born, and so all the fluids from the birth don't cling to the wool and attract bugs).
 
  • #17
If you are "against" fur, are you also against leather?

Is wearing animal hair worse than wearing animal skin?

Humans would not be where we are if it weren't for smearing an animal's skin with its own brains. Sickening as it sounds, that's the way tanning has been done for thousands of years.
 
  • #18
Moonbear said:
The best action to take is to stop believing PETA's propaganda in any way represents reality. Now they're complaining about wool...yeesh...you get wool by giving the sheep the equivalent of a haircut, which they need to not get too hot in summer anyway, and send them merrily back out to pasture.

I used to get the newsletter from "Real Goods," a solar-living store on the west coast. The best part were the letters, which once contained a PETA-ish person claiming that they would not buy anything through the store or catalog as long as they sold anything made of or containing wool.

I couldn't help thinking: petroleum-based synthetics is "more-correct" than wool? As a Scot, I found that offensive.

Edit: Maybe they think that hemp sweaters will keep you warm enough.
 
  • #19
I think it all depends on how it is done. Obviously stomping a racoons head is not appropriate. But if someone were to "humanely" put the racoon down and then use the meat for food, I'm ok with that. But I doubt they used the rest of the racoon.
 
  • #20
Chi Meson said:
Edit: Maybe they think that hemp sweaters will keep you warm enough.

They will if you smoke them.

I must admit I do wear loads of leather because I'm into motorbikes, but I think that as long as the killing is humane then we can use the product.
 
  • #21
We used to have a couple goats and one sheep. When the sheep would get shorn I can guarantee you he LOVED it. Like a cat getting scratched! That wool must be itchy on them, too, I guess. Then he'd get up and prance around the barnyard like he was a lamb again. My hands would smell of lanolin for a day or two...yuck.

So I don't equate wool with fur...not even close. It's the cruelty that I can't support. And groups like PETA...I think they're well-intentioned but they go way, way too far. People don't respond to being preached at.
 
  • #22
Getting a bit off track here. There's a big difference between being against fur and being a proud terrorist supporter of PETA.

Shouldn't the links be put back in the OP? It's hard to discuss something when half the people haven't even seen what the debate is about.
 
  • #23
Chi Meson said:
I couldn't help thinking: petroleum-based synthetics is "more-correct" than wool? As a Scot, I found that offensive.

Indeed, I don't think they think beyond Step 1: grow a sheep. Wool is very eco-friendly, since you can process it into a usable product without any chemical processing (unless you count a soap-and-water wash as chemical processing; granted many choose to dye wool, but they dye other fibers too, and you don't NEED to dye it for it to be wearable). Much better than something like cotton or synthetic fibers in terms of what gets dumped into the environment from processing (what comes off into the wash water is either dirt/fecal material that can be put right back into the soil, or lanolin that's a wonderful moisturizing lotion). A lot of people also don't know that wool is also naturally flame-retardant, so you don't need to treat it with another chemical to give it that property.

If you have sheep, you don't need a lawnmower, so yet another eco-friendly plus. Compost what comes out the other end and you can have nice fertilizer for your garden.
 
  • #24
Math Is Hard said:
I never wear fur. It's so passe. To me, women in fur coats look like hookers.

Can hookers afford real fur? I just thought it was Rapper Pimps hoes who managed to get the fur and still live a hooker like lifestyle.
 
  • #25
ShawnD said:
Shouldn't the links be put back in the OP? It's hard to discuss something when half the people haven't even seen what the debate is about.

It's easy enough for people to google for the videos, that way, no one accidently clicks on them.
 
  • #26
What on Earth would be a reason to oppose wool?
 
  • #27
Evo said:
What on Earth would be a reason to oppose wool?

Its itchy.
 
  • #28
ShawnD said:
Getting a bit off track here. There's a big difference between being against fur and being a proud terrorist supporter of PETA.

Shouldn't the links be put back in the OP? It's hard to discuss something when half the people haven't even seen what the debate is about.

They were all PETA propaganda links, hence why we're talking about PETA. One of them was anti-wool, which is why we're talking about sheep, while another was anti-fur, and a third one I didn't watch because it was a youtube clip that required signing into view, but that's the one folks were reporting was too disturbing to leave up.

It's also worth noting that none of this means there aren't people who are cruel to animals, just don't assume it's an industry standard. For example, that recent beef recall was due to a legitimate case of animal cruelty/animal welfare violations at a slaughterhouse, and indeed, caught far too slowly by inspectors. That doesn't mean all slaughterhouses treat their animals that way, or that it's an industry standard...indeed, it's a violation of industry regulations. You will find real cases of pet owners who neglect and abuse their pets; that doesn't mean that all pet owners are cruel and inhumane to their pets.
 
  • #29
Moonbear said:
Indeed, I don't think they think beyond Step 1: grow a sheep. Wool is very eco-friendly, since you can process it into a usable product without any chemical processing (unless you count a soap-and-water wash as chemical processing; granted many choose to dye wool, but they dye other fibers too, and you don't NEED to dye it for it to be wearable). Much better than something like cotton or synthetic fibers in terms of what gets dumped into the environment from processing (what comes off into the wash water is either dirt/fecal material that can be put right back into the soil, or lanolin that's a wonderful moisturizing lotion). A lot of people also don't know that wool is also naturally flame-retardant, so you don't need to treat it with another chemical to give it that property.

If you have sheep, you don't need a lawnmower, so yet another eco-friendly plus. Compost what comes out the other end and you can have nice fertilizer for your garden.
But it needs to be woven. Who was it that said "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to weave?" Better go naked.
 
  • #30
I'm sure there are humane (sp.?) of getting fur.
 

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