What CAUSES black cody radiation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the causes of black body radiation, exploring both ideal and real black bodies, and the mechanisms behind their emission of radiation. Participants examine the roles of atomic and molecular vibrations, electron transitions, and the differences between solid and gaseous states in relation to emission spectra.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether black body radiation is caused by electrons being excited and falling back, suggesting this would lead to an emission spectrum characteristic of the element.
  • Others clarify that ideal black bodies are theoretical constructs that absorb and emit radiation of all energies, while real black bodies show spectral lines due to their material properties.
  • One participant notes that black body radiation in solids is primarily due to molecular vibrations rather than electron transitions, indicating that thermal radiation is linked to the vibrational modes of molecules.
  • A later reply suggests that the close packing of atoms in solids creates a continuous range of energy levels, leading to a continuous spectrum of radiation as opposed to the discrete line spectrum seen in gases.
  • Another participant proposes that in practical scenarios, such as heat from a brick wall, the motion of nuclei may be more significant in radiation than electron activity, as nuclei are larger centers of charge that vibrate thermally.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms behind black body radiation, particularly regarding the roles of electron transitions versus molecular vibrations. There is no consensus on a singular cause, and multiple competing explanations are presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of black body radiation, with limitations in assumptions about ideal versus real black bodies and the dependence on material states. The nuances of energy levels and their implications for radiation are also noted but remain unresolved.

mahela007
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What causes black body radiation? I don't think it's the electrons being exited and falling back because the result of that would be the emission spectrum of the element...
 
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Well, the Blackbody Radiation you study in basic physics concerns an "ideal" black body, one that absorbs and re-emits radiation of ALL energies: that is, a perfect, classical black body and not one that preferentially absorbs and emits light at certain frequencies (as a "real-life" black body does).

That said, a real-life blackbody will show spectral lines. In fact, some studies in astronomy use this kind of blackbody analysis--e.g. relative intensities and spectral lines--to infer information about stars.
 
mahela007 said:
What causes black body radiation? I don't think it's the electrons being exited and falling back because the result of that would be the emission spectrum of the element...

The ideal black body is in the solid state and to see the emission spectra of the elements from which it is composed these elements must be in the gaseous/vapour state.
 
mahela007 said:
What causes black body radiation? I don't think it's the electrons being exited and falling back because the result of that would be the emission spectrum of the element...

Most real substances are not perfect blackbodies. You seem to be asking about the actual physics of a real material and how it emits radiation; rather than specifically for an ideal blackbody. It's a very good question.

The sources of radiation depend on the substance. Mostly, as you say, it has nothing to do with electrons changing energy levels in an atom. For thermal radiation, it is mostly from vibrations of molecules, I believe.

Like the emissions spectrum of an atom, this radiation is also has a bunch of characteristic frequencies, corresponding to vibration modes of a molecule.

Cheers -- sylas
 
I don't want to be ungrateful or rude but only Sylas's answer helped. So.. black body radiation is caused by the atoms themselves vibrating really fast?
 
mahela007 said:
I don't want to be ungrateful or rude but only Sylas's answer helped. So.. black body radiation is caused by the atoms themselves vibrating really fast?

Let me elaborate on my answer.The close packing of atoms as in the solid state results in the creation of numerous extra energy levels which are so close together that they can be considered as a continuous energy band.The result is that when the solid is energised there is a continuous range of allowed electron jumps this giving rise to a continuous spectrum which is distinct from the line spectrum observed when the atoms are in the gaseous/vapour state, the energy levels in the latter case being discrete and separated.
 
oh... So it's like metallic bonding? (By the way.. thanks for your reply)
 
I haven't done any detailed calculations on this but I think in a typical engineering calculation, like heat coming off a brick wall or a cement pavement, the motion of the nucleii is more significant than what the electrons are doing. The nucleii are big centers of charge which vibrate thermally, both individually and in bulk modes, and thereby radiate classical e-m energy.
 

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