What Colleges Want for High Schoolers Taking AP Classes

[cyby]

I'm not in the top 20%. I'm in the top 50% . I'll try not to worry about it so much but it is hard not to.

I also find that these ranking systems are not fair. If I end up taking far more difficult courses and my grades suffered, it doesn't mean that I won't do as well or better than someone with a higher rank just because they had a better grade...

I also know for a fact that my high school *never* filled in a rank for the students.

 

[Shay10825]

Yeah I guess your right. But at the rate I'm going i won't even get into a state school. I'll try not to worry about it but it's so hard not to.

 

[cyby]

If those credentials that you posted way earlier are right - I am sure you will get into more than just a state school. Probably a half decent private university, if you don't mess up and continue on this trend. The mean Ivy League student probably doesn't have more than 4 or 5 APs throughout their career anyway. Trust me, you're ahead of many people older than you are. You got little to worry about.

 

[Shay10825]

I also find that these ranking systems are not fair. If I end up taking far more difficult courses and my grades suffered, it doesn't mean that I won't do as well or better than someone with a higher rank just because they had a better grade...

I also know for a fact that my high school *never* filled in a rank for the students.

At my school rank is determined by HPA not GPA. My HPA is way higher than my GPA because an A in an AP calass is worth 6 points not 4. So the more higher level classes you take the higher your rank 9but you have to do well in those classes also).

 

[cyby]

If those credentials that you posted way earlier are right - I am sure you will get into more than just a state school. Probably a half decent private university, if you don't mess up and continue on this trend. The mean Ivy League student probably doesn't have more than 4 or 5 APs throughout their career anyway. Trust me, you're ahead of many people older than you are. You got little to worry about.

 

[cyby]

At my school rank is determined by HPA not GPA. My HPA is way higher than my GPA because an A in an AP calass is worth 6 points not 4. So the more higher level classes you take the higher your rank 9but you have to do well in those classes also).

Point is - your college will ignore those rankings and assign them on your own. Damn, six instead of four? You are already lucking out. No complaints :P

 

[Shay10825]

I saw this thing on 60 min or 20 20. It was about these 2 girls. One had tons of AP classes, a 3.9 GPA but since she went to a good school she did not have a high rank. The other girl had a 3.4 GPA, no AP classes but she was in the top 10% at her school. They both applied to a really good school and the girl with the lower GPA got in because she was in the top 10%. This worries me.

 

[cyby]

You shouldn't let individual case studies worry you. However, the other girl may also had other factors - such as ... extracurriculars, essays, recommendations, geography, race.. and all of that stuff.

It is indeed true that colleges won't take so many students from top notch schools.. but eh, NYU takes 1/3 of my high school's applicants, Columbia about 1/5.. Chicago about 1/3 to 40%.. and hundreds of us apply every year... so I mean, don't let numbers worry you so much... it will affect your day to day performance...

 

[cronxeh]

also keep in mind - you might not want to go to an Ivy League school. At this point in time with lower GPA you probably won't get full tuition coverage - so you'll be taking out big loans, even if you end up in Columbia for example. And big loans means about 30 grand a year - so think about it - do you really want that? You can just as successfully go to a SUNY at Buffalo, which is a great school and pay only 14 grand for everything (and that is before any financial aid - which may be around 4 grand i your case)

 

[cyby]

Hah, I wish 30 grand a year would cover it... *Sigh*

 

[Math Is Hard]

Can you compromise, Shay? I mean, could you consider staying at your school but taking AP classes only in the subjects you are strongest in?
You shouldn't be under this much stress at your age. You need to have a life!
I don't know how it is where you are, but I know that the colleges in California look at quite a few other things besides GPA. They like to see volunteer work and community service, they like to see any academic clubs you were involved in, they like to see ambition and enthusiasm (through your admissions essay), and they are always delighted to see any special awards and achievements (HELLO - Ms. Science Fair winner!).
You have an awful lot going for you so don't sell yourself short! I think you are freakin' brilliant and you should apply anywhere your little heart desires!

 

[theFuture]

Shay: That 20/20 was on a totally unrelated topic. It was disucssing the policy at the University of Texas to grant students automatic admissions to their school if you 1) are a state resident and 2) are in the top 10%. They were filling most of the incoming class that way (controversially) so that's why there was a 20/20 on it. Unless you are from Texas, you don't have to worry about it.

I'll just echo myself and others one more time: Yes, rank is important. Yes, grades are also imporant. However, you need to consider what is best for you. If you're trying your hardest and enjoying what you do that's all anyone can ask. If you do this you are setting yourself up for a bright future, independent of what college you ultimately attend. There are lots of people who go to horrible schools and, by their own will, go own to do great things. There are also those who sell out, get into good schools and fail to make anything of themselves, by their own will. You are NOT defined by where you go to college. Remember that.

 

[Shay10825]

Can you compromise, Shay? I mean, could you consider staying at your school but taking AP classes only in the subjects you are strongest in?

The AP classes I'm not doing well in now are calc and physics. I am required to take these because I'm in MSE. I understand the stuff but it is just how they grade. Like for example in calc to get credit for a quiz you have to get every problem correct or you get a zero. That english class is not AP. my teacher just sucks! If you say something smart he hates you. He loves it when you say stupid things . I have a presentation to do and I need to think of really stupid things to say or else I'm not going to do well .

I have always been bad in engligh (not bad enough to get a c though).

 

[so-crates]

You're taking AP Physics before even finishing Chemistry - good grief. Whoever your guidance counselor is should be fired. Yes, there are a few exceptional kids who might have a shot at handling it that, but so what. People's minds sometimes mature at different rates. Let me give you an example.

At the school I went to, I knew of one individual who took Calculus in 8th grade and was taking Multivariable Calc and Linear Algebra as a Freshman. Then there was another kid who was 'only' in Pre-Calc as a freshman. One of those kids went on to go IMO, and in college placed in the top 5 in the Putnam 4 years in row, and wonit at least once if I'm not mistaken. Can you guess which one it was.

Your course load should be challenging, but not overwhelming. Why can't you drop one or even two of those AP classes and switch into regular ? You can always take them as junior or god forbid a senior. What do you plan on doing as a senior anyway? I doubt a good school is going to hold that against you. And if you want to go into science, why are you taking AP gov right now?

 

[Shay10825]

This is what I'm required to do:

http://www.palmbeach.k12.fl.us/SuncoastHS/mse2004.html

 

[cyby]

Lord, what a boring and restrictive schedule. It's not too difficult, but I see enough boredom and redundancies...

I presume that this is a special program you are in? Challenging, but it's worth looking at this program's statistics in getting into the colleges of your choice - your school may or may not publish these statistics...

 

[cyby]

You guys should be ok. Back when I was in HS, we didn't even start the AP curriculum until October.. we always cut it tight, and have to do some studies on our own...

Teaching for exams really isn't fun at all...

 

[Shay10825]

Yeah it is a special program. Yeah my school does not publish the stats.

 

[so-crates]

No offense Shay, but that program just seems like its too much for even most gifted and talented students. People have no business taking physics concurrent with chemistry unless they have made significant individual efforts to learn the material themselves. Much less AP physics. This curriculum was probably cobbled together by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. AP Physics is significantly harder than AP Chem and AP Bio. BTW I attended what some consider to be the best public high school in the country(we always have the most National Merift SemiFinalists) and our standard curricula looked like this

Freshman Year:
-Biology - emphasis on molecular
-English
-Principles of Technology - traditional pencil &paper drafting as well as CAD, electronics and robotics. Only really useful thing was electronics.
-Math (about half took geometry, the other half took Alg/2 Trig and a few were past that)
-Health/PE
-Foreign Langauge - took Latin
-elective although a lot of people took computer science (we had an accelerated version of this that was a little harder - this is the one I took)

Sophomre Year:
-World History - I remember one kid managed to sneak in AP European History . But even most the kids who were Harvard/MIT bound were still taking the regular
-Literature(team taught with world history)
-Chemistry
-Math(either Alg 2 or Pre calc for most)
-Health/Drivers Ed
-Foreign language
-elective, although a lot of people took AP Comp Sci

Junior Year:
-American History ( about half took AP if I remember)
-American Literature (team taught with the history)
-Math (pre-calc or calc at this point)
-Foreign language - they only required three years
-Physics (some people like me attempted AP Physics their junior year - I didn't do so well so I switched into regular) Believe it or not the AP Physics class only consisted of about 60 kids, , juniors and seniors. out of the 400 per class There was another option where you just took Mechanics the first semester of your junior year and then did E&M your senior year with multivariable calc. if you had calc as a junior.
-Technical electives that would prepare you for your Senior Lab
-Alot of people took their Fine arts elective this year

Senior Year:
-English - you had a choice here, between AP English and this more writing intensive course called Writing Seminar
-Government either AP or regular - there wasn't a whole lot of difference
-Math( you had to finish Calculus, but we had both BC and AB, we even had 4 semesters post calculus(linear alg, multivariable calc, diff eq, and they added complex variables when I was a senior)
-Geoscience(everyone complained about this one)
-Senior Lab
-Alot of people took their AP Chem/Physics/Bio at this point although you only needed 4 science credits
-Fine arts/other electives

 

[so-crates]

About the previous post, I don't mean to boast, but to only suggest that you don't need to kill yourself to get into a good school. In the curriculum I mentioned, few if any students were taking AP courses before their junior year(AP Comp Sci was the glaring exception, though that course isn't that hard for most) And plenty of them got into Harvard, MIT, CalTech, etc. (Not me, though I'm a nother story!)

Also, you should ask yourself why you are doing what you are doing. If it is just to "get a good job" as you say, that will probably not turn out to be a satisfying reason. Ideally you must enjoy what you do regardless of money, status and prestige.

 

[Shay10825]

Now I'm probably going to get kicked out of MSE and be forced to leave the school. I'm really really doing bad in calc. I had a C but I just took a quiz and it brought my grade down. I made a really stupid mistake so I got part a wrong. Since I got part a wrong I got part b, c, d, e . . . wrong also . She said if I could convince her that I knew the calc stuff she would see what she could do with my grade(i made an algebra mistake). But how can I convince her?

 

[Shay10825]

Also, you should ask yourself why you are doing what you are doing. If it is just to "get a good job" as you say, that will probably not turn out to be a satisfying reason. Ideally you must enjoy what you do regardless of money, status and prestige.

I was doing it because it was fun. Now it's hell.

 

[kreil]

I see a few general things wrong with your view:

1) It seems you think as if everything is going to snowball and if you don't get your grades up immediately you will be screwed for life. Fact is, you would have to screw up for the next 7 or so years to mess things up to the point where you are in bad shape, and I don't see that happening.
2) If you are going to take science just to get a "good job" it shouldn't be your major. Of course, money is always a concern, but you should study a subject you enjoy. Who wants to rot for 40 years while doing something that sucks, even though it pays well? In the end you will realize you could have enjoyed that time doing something else. You have no obligations when choosing a major, you just need to think about it hard.
3) A runner that places last in the Olympics is still a world class athlete. Similarly, a student that goes to a school of your caliber and does awful is still a very smart person. They don't accept just anyone.

Also, I found myself feeling very similar to the way you do last year when I was loaded with AP classes. Fact is, although it sounds very harsh, stop feeling sorry for yourself and just do the work! Everything you have done is over, and you can't change it. You only have control over what happens in the future, and it is your responsibility to worry about what is to come and not dwell on past failures. You need to find determination from this experience, not depression.


mil suerte

P.S. If you turn things around now and end high school doing fairly well, it would be an incredibly strong subject for a personal statement on your college applications. It would explain your bad grades, and show your strong character and determination!

 

[Andromeda321]

Ok, take a two deep breaths, your life is not over and nor will it end because of what you're going through. First and most pressing, the calc teacher and how to deal: flat out ask her what you can do to show her you know calculus. Any extra assignments you can do so you keep your C? There are few teachers out there who are going to have an algebraic mistake wreck your grade like that with no way out of it; if you've come across one she's a witch and it's probably better that you'd be out of her hair anyway. Also see if you can transfer maybe to the other calculus class for next term and enlist your parents to help.
Now about your questions regarding rank: I'll have you know I went to a prestigious academic high school but did not get good grades. My guidance teacher didn't like many people so despite the fact that my school does not rank students felt free to indicate just where I would be on my transcripts. Not even where I was, mind, that was never calculated, but where she GUESSED I would be so I wasn't very high at all (only learned all this by accident). But when it all came down to it I was in the most challenging courses I could be in and my other test scores etc were good so I got into two decent schools (Case Western Reserve University and Carnegie-Mellon University). Now that I hear from friends who went to Ivies about what life is like there I'm glad I am where I ended up because it doesn't sound like the life for me anyway.
Plus here's something else to think about: as you said, your school is one of the best in the country. I assure you a college admissions department will know this fact and keep it in mind when considering your application. They will also know you could've gone to some other school and gotten better grades but you instead wished to challenge yourself and they will admire that fact.
Best of luck in whatever you decide and kudos for getting as far as you have!

 

[Shay10825]

Ok, take a two deep breaths, your life is not over and nor will it end because of what you're going through.

Yeah I know but it feels like it is. I've been thinking too much about death and I need to stop before I do something really stupid. I've been crying every night because of this. I just can't help it. I've just been really depressed. I know every1 has said that grades don't matter but I just can't help it. I don't know why I'm like this. Now I understand why people commit suicide and do drugs.

flat out ask her what you can do to show her you know calculus. Any extra assignments you can do so you keep your C? There are few teachers out there who are going to have an algebraic mistake wreck your grade like that with no way out of it

I did. She said I can't do any extra assignments. She is one of those teachers that will let an algebra mistake kill my grade like that.

 

[learningphysics]

Yeah I know but it feels like it is. I've been thinking too much about death and I need to stop before I do something really stupid. I've been crying every night because of this. I just can't help it. I've just been really depressed. I know every1 has said that grades don't matter but I just can't help it. I don't know why I'm like this. Now I understand why people commit suicide and do drugs.



I did. She said I can't do any extra assignments. She is one of those teachers that will let an algebra mistake kill my grade like that.

Please talk to your parents. Let them know how stressed out you are about this. None of this is really that important... getting into a good college, getting a good job... It shouldn't cause this much anxiety. Talk to your parents. Do they know how much you're stressing over this?

 

[fiber]

what ever happened to schools being an institution of learning just for the knowledge?!

-lor4x

 

[so-crates]

what ever happened to schools being an institution of learning just for the knowledge?!

-lor4x

Sadly I believe many educators, especially at the secondary level, have forgotten this. Remaing "competitive in a global economy" and all that other nonsense has taken precedence.