Engineering What does it takes to be a physicist compared to an engineer?

[Patrick_Nth]

I'm about to finish a Physics BS and head off to an MSEE program, and I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

For the love of all that is right in this world, APPLY FOR THOSE INTERNSHIPS/REUs.

I spent my entire first year here (UCLA) undeclared, thinking I wanted to go into engineering because it had a decent starting salary and it was still geared towards problem-solving (I knew nothing more than that). Sophomore year rolled around, and after I found out that there would be a slight chance I'd have to stay for a 5th year if I switched to Mechanical Engineering, I panicked and declared Physics.

Do I regret my decision? Not at all. I didn't come to loathe Physics, and if I did enjoy it enough to pursue a PhD, I'm pretty damn sure I'd be sticking around for plasma or accelerator physics. Your mileage may vary, but looking at my peers, I feel like I would've burnt out sooner had I had to deal with an undergraduate engineering courseload as opposed to the measly 3 class/quarter schedule I dealt with.

Also, keep an open mind about research. I don't know what the UofT situation is for undergrad research, but I know a decent number of people here who've crossed disciplines in order to explore more areas. Math majors working at AMO Physics labs. Physics majors looking into Signal Analysis for EE. Physics majors working at Photonics labs under EE. It may be an option for you if you still have doubts at some point about your path.

The sad truth? You're going to have to pick something and just ROLL with it at some point.

Best of luck.

 

[elimenohpee]

If you want to be an engineer and physicist, you should consider electrical engineering. A lot of schools offer a double major in physics and ee, since a lot of the topics are similar. Plus with ee, you can get into solid state theory which really combines physics, engineering, and chemistry into one big pot. And if you think about it, semiconductors are a great field to get into if you start thinking about your future.

In my undergraduate curriculum, I minored in math, so you can always consider minoring in something. But you'll find, as others have said, that what sounds exciting now isn't as exciting when you get into it.

 

[John H]

It's been a long time since I posted in this thread and I just wanted to tell you about my decision and thank you for all of your help. I accepted my offer to Engineering Science and will be heading there in a matter of weeks. After reading your responses, I tried calling the University of Toronto to ask about the engineering science program, and then they reffered me to this: http://www.engsci.utoronto.ca/Assets/engsci+Digital+Assets/pdfs/engsci+brochure.pdf

Among other things I found that a there are a number of graduates who went on to pursue physics at internationally renowned universities like Caltech, MIT, and Stanford among other. Most notable was a professor of Astrophysics and the chair of the physics department at Stanford, and she was an engsci alumni. This confirmed what many of you told me, and I wish to thank your all again for you help.

 

[Schr0d1ng3r]

In engineering, you'll focus on linear equations with constant coefficients. You'll learn all sorts of efficient ways to solve them and analyze a system described by one. What you won't see are equations with non-constant coefficients, that lead to things like spherical harmonics, Bessel functions, Sturm-Liouville theory, etc.

I call shenanigans. I'm doing Engineering Physics and I learn all of those in my second and third year math courses.

 

[nicholls]

Too bad I did not stumble upon this thread earlier. I am going into my third year of engineering science at UofT and I'm going into the physics option so I could have answered pretty much all of your questions.

First of all, Engsci is a legit engineering program and you will get your P.eng. Secondly, the physics option is extremely flexible and you can pretty much take all the advanced math/physics you want to/need to. You are constrained a bit in that you have to take some eng courses in your upper years to make sure you get your accreditation units and graduate on time, but it is not too limiting, so nothing to be worried about. My timetable for third year is looking something like this:

Fall:
Engineering Economics and Decision Making
Quantum Mechanics 1 (also took intro to QM in second year, so this should be cake)
Advanced Physics Laboratory
Electronics
Partial Differential Equations
Financial Engineering (course overload ie. extra credit, I was originally going to overload with Groups and Symmetries, but it didn't fit my schedule, could also do complex analysis if I want, or anything at uoft that fits haha)

Winter:
Electromagnetic Fields
Advanced Classical Mechanics
Advanced Physics Laboratory 2
Nuclear and Particle Physics
Physical Electronics
Atoms, Molecules and Solids
(might change the other two around, might take Groups and Symmetries instead of one or the other, might take a completely different course(s))

As for fourth year I'm looking at taking courses in relativity, nuclear engineering/fusion, more QM, high energy physics etc. Also, plenty of math to take. Real analysis, polynomials and fields etc. Here is the course calendar if you're really interested, might have to scroll down to find it: http://www.undergrad.engineering.utoronto.ca/Office_of_the_Registrar/Academic_Calendar/2011-2012_Academic_Calendar.htm" And if there's something not offered in the calendar that you want to take, you can just bring it up with the department and they will add it to the calendar, simple as that.

The courses you take in the first two years are as hard or harder than any other equivalent course at Uoft. The best part about this program is that you learn to absorb tons of information extremely quickly, making it really easy to pick up other things at any other point in your life. You made a good decision in choosing engineering science. And if you don't like it, you can just drop into any other program at uoft (and be at the top of your class).

If you're curious as to what I plan on doing after school, it's most likely a phd or masters in physics. I am also considering financial engineering right now as an alternative.

 

[John H]

Too bad I did not stumble upon this thread earlier. I am going into my third year of engineering science at UofT and I'm going into the physics option so I could have answered pretty much all of your questions.

First of all, Engsci is a legit engineering program and you will get your P.eng. Secondly, the physics option is extremely flexible and you can pretty much take all the advanced math/physics you want to/need to. You are constrained a bit in that you have to take some eng courses in your upper years to make sure you get your accreditation units and graduate on time, but it is not too limiting, so nothing to be worried about. My timetable for third year is looking something like this:

Fall:
Engineering Economics and Decision Making
Quantum Mechanics 1 (also took intro to QM in second year, so this should be cake)
Advanced Physics Laboratory
Electronics
Partial Differential Equations
Financial Engineering (course overload ie. extra credit, I was originally going to overload with Groups and Symmetries, but it didn't fit my schedule, could also do complex analysis if I want, or anything at uoft that fits haha)

Winter:
Electromagnetic Fields
Advanced Classical Mechanics
Advanced Physics Laboratory 2
Nuclear and Particle Physics
Physical Electronics
Atoms, Molecules and Solids
(might change the other two around, might take Groups and Symmetries instead of one or the other, might take a completely different course(s))

As for fourth year I'm looking at taking courses in relativity, nuclear engineering/fusion, more QM, high energy physics etc. Also, plenty of math to take. Real analysis, polynomials and fields etc. Here is the course calendar if you're really interested, might have to scroll down to find it: http://www.undergrad.engineering.utoronto.ca/Office_of_the_Registrar/Academic_Calendar/2011-2012_Academic_Calendar.htm" And if there's something not offered in the calendar that you want to take, you can just bring it up with the department and they will add it to the calendar, simple as that.

The courses you take in the first two years are as hard or harder than any other equivalent course at Uoft. The best part about this program is that you learn to absorb tons of information extremely quickly, making it really easy to pick up other things at any other point in your life. You made a good decision in choosing engineering science. And if you don't like it, you can just drop into any other program at uoft (and be at the top of your class).

If you're curious as to what I plan on doing after school, it's most likely a phd or masters in physics. I am also considering financial engineering right now as an alternative.

Thanks for replying, your post really is really reassuring. Indeed the engineering physics option sounds really robust. Cant wait till school Starts!

By the way, what was your overall feeling on the first two years of engsci? I did not do AP or IB in high school, and was wondering how big of a disadvantage this would be?

 

[nicholls]

By the way, what was your overall feeling on the first two years of engsci? I did not do AP or IB in high school, and was wondering how big of a disadvantage this would be?

It will not be a disadvantage at all. I took neither AP or IB in high school. In fact, I learned basically nothing in high school. First semester took some getting used to as the pace at which things were taught was much different, especially in Calculus. But you get used to it pretty quick. I didn't even do homework or anything in first semester and I still pulled off a 3.78 GPA, but not everyone can do that. I tried to do this in second semester but quickly realized how important homework is. For a little perspective, I ranked 87 out of 300ish engscis after first semester (in terms of grades), and after second semester second year, I am now ranked 4th out of 200ish. You will catch up very quickly to the people who learned more than you in high school, and then you will laugh at them because they were taught everything twice.

I wouldn't worry too much about second year right now. Second year is a lot more work than first year. In second year you will be jealous of how much free time you had in first year. The difference is that in second year you are more mature, and can focus on school more (at least I found this). In other words, it gets harder, but you get better, so in the end, you will be complaining about the same amount as you did in first year, maybe a little more (because the robot you have to build takes forever to build, and never works properly).

The last thing I'd like to point out is that it might be harder than high school, but the university/engsci experience is sooooo much better than high school it will more than make up for it. For me, first year was one of the best times of my life. If I were to give advice I would say to just make sure you leave lots of time for having fun. Don't kill yourself studying in first year, there's plenty of time to do that later on. Time management is key.

Are you living in rez?

 

[John H]

Yes I am. I will be living at chestnut residence for first year, and hopefully be able to move to a cheaper residence second year. It's nice to have someone like you who is clearly at the top of their class answer your questions, so thanks again.


Also were you stressed when it came to choosing your major, considering all the options?

 

[nicholls]

Awesome. I lived in new college first year. There were about 3 or four engscis who I was good friends with at new, and we always did our civ problem sets together in first semester (something you will introduced to in exactly two weeks). You'll probably find something similar at chestnut. If you want to do well get to know a lot of people in your class and hang out in the engsci common room a lot (I spent most my time studying for finals last semester in the common room). Studying and doing problem sets in groups will make your life 1000% easier. That said, make lots of nonengsci friends too. I have a lot more friends outside of engsci than in it.

Choosing an option wasn't too difficult for me. I more or less had made up my mind by then end of second semester that I really wanted to do physics. Although in January, I was also interested in computer architecture, and that happened to be the time I was applying for summer research positions. So I ended up doing computer architecture research all summer despite being mostly interested in physics haha.. oh well. I wouldn't worry about choosing an option right now, you'll figure it out eventually.

If you have any other questions just PM me.

 

[leontd]

You need to be extremely patient if you want to major in physics, because it is way harder to find a job than engineering. My math professor have a PhD in both mathematics and physics, and said that a good reliable position to work as a physicists is much much harder than getting a position in mathematics.