What Does Space Gives Moving Orders Mean for Gravity in Einstein's Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the interpretation of a statement made by an astronomer in a documentary regarding gravity and its relationship to space and time, particularly in the context of Einstein's theory of general relativity. Participants explore the implications of this statement and its alignment with the physics knowledge of the 1970s.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of the statement about objects receiving their "moving orders" from space, seeking clarification on its correctness and context.
  • Another participant references John Wheeler's quote about mass and spacetime, suggesting that the astronomer's statement relates to the idea that spacetime influences the movement of mass.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that a gravitational field exists independently of the objects, indicating that gravitational attraction is always present and influences objects regardless of their state of motion.
  • One participant adds that the shaping of spacetime is influenced by distant masses, suggesting a more complex interaction between mass and spacetime than initially presented.
  • Another participant recalls a notion from Eddington that suggests curvature of spacetime defines mass, proposing a bidirectional relationship between mass and curvature as described by the Einstein field equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the relationship between mass and spacetime, with no consensus reached on the implications of the astronomer's statement or its correctness within the framework of general relativity.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference historical perspectives and interpretations from the 1970s, indicating that the discussion may be influenced by the evolving understanding of general relativity and its implications for gravity.

Boballoo
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TL;DR
Old documentary says something odd about gravity that I don't understand.
I was watching an old documentary called "Einstein's Universe" from the seventies with Peter Ustinov. They were at a large observatory, outside by the railing, one story above ground, testing Galileo's theory of gravity using two weights of 1 KG and .25 KG of the same shape so air does not affect either one significantly. Dropping them, they both landed at the same time as expected, but one of the astronomers there, the one who dropped the weights, said the following:

“The reason those things all move at the same rate is that objects get their moving orders​
from the same piece of space. It’s not the distant Earth, it’s the space right where they are.”​

I have never heard gravity being described like this. What exactly is meant by this statement? Is he correct? Can someone explain what is meant here in the context of physics knowledge available in the seventies?
 
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Quote "Mass tells space-time how to curve, and spacetime tells mass how to move." John Wheeler.
That is a brief description of the general theory of relativity.

The astronomer is referencing the second part of the quote.
 
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Boballoo said:
What exactly is meant by this statement? Is he correct?
He is talking about the fact that a gravitational field exists there whether the objects are there or not. That is, the gravitational attraction does not come into existence when the objects are dropped, it was right there all along and influences the objects whether they are released or not.
 
Boballoo said:
“The reason those things all move at the same rate is that objects get their moving orders​
from the same piece of space. It’s not the distant Earth, it’s the space right where they are.”​
He could have added that "the spacetime where they are gets its shaping orders from the distant Earth".

Note that it's the shape of spacetime (not just space) that matters.
 
256bits said:
Quote "Mass tells space-time how to curve, and spacetime tells mass how to move." John Wheeler.
That is a brief description of the general theory of relativity.

The astronomer is referencing the second part of the quote.
I am not an expert in this field(!) but I seem to remember reading, maybe from Eddington, that it is a curvature of space-time that defines a mass, and not the opposite way round.
 
tech99 said:
I am not an expert in this field(!) but I seem to remember reading, maybe from Eddington, that it is a curvature of space-time that defines a mass, and not the opposite way round.
Mass (more generally the stress-energy tensor) and the curvature tensor are related by the Einstein field equations. In a sense, therefore, they both define each other.
 

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