What does the frequency representation of a function show?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of frequency representation in the context of Fourier transforms, particularly focusing on how frequency is understood for both periodic and non-periodic functions. Participants explore the implications of these representations and clarify misconceptions related to the Fourier transform of specific functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the meaning of frequency in non-periodic signals, noting that frequency is typically defined as the inverse of the period.
  • Another participant clarifies that the Fourier transform of the constant function f(x) = 1 results in a delta function, indicating that the only frequency present is zero.
  • There is a discussion about the Fourier transform of f(x) = x, with one participant asserting that it results in the derivative of the delta function, while another questions the occurrence of frequency in this context.
  • Participants discuss the nature of frequency in non-periodic functions, suggesting that any frequency is possible due to the absence of a fundamental frequency.
  • One participant raises a potential misconception about approximating non-periodic functions by treating segments of the curve as periods of a periodic function, seeking clarification on this approach in Fourier analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the Fourier transform of f(x) = x and the interpretation of frequency in non-periodic functions. Some participants propose differing views on how frequency should be understood in these contexts, and the discussion remains unresolved on several points.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of frequency and the assumptions made about the nature of non-periodic functions. The interpretation of Fourier transforms as generalized functions is also noted but not fully resolved.

Tosh5457
Messages
130
Reaction score
28
I don't understand what electrical engineers mean by the frequency of a signal... Frequency is the inverse of the period, but they speak of the frequency of non-periodic signals.

I know that I can derive the function using the Fourier transform, I just don't understand what frequency means in this context... For example, why is the Fourier transform of f(x) = 1 is [tex]\hat{f}(\xi )=\delta (\xi)[/tex] (dirac delta)? The only frequency that gives a non-zero value for f is 0, why is that?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
f(x) = 1 contains no variable components, so its spectrum is simply the delta function.
 
Last edited:
mathman said:
f(x) = 1 contains no variable components, so its spectrum is simply the delta function.

I see. But if I'm not mistaken, for f(x) = x, the function is

fˆ(ξ)=δ(ξ)

as well, but the function f(x) has variable components in this case.

The frequency measures the number of occurrences of an event. What's the occurrence in these examples?
 
Tosh5457 said:
I see. But if I'm not mistaken, for f(x) = x, the function is

fˆ(ξ)=δ(ξ)

as well, but the function f(x) has variable components in this case.

The frequency measures the number of occurrences of an event. What's the occurrence in these examples?

No, that's not correct. For the function f(x) = x, the Fourier transform is the derivative of the delta function. (The Fourier transform in this case must be interpreted as a generalised function aka a distribution).

To understand what the frequency of a non-periodic function is: For periodic functions you can write down a Fourier series; that is, the function can be written as the sum of infinitely many sinusoids. However, the frequencies of the sinusoids are restricted to multiples of the fundamental frequency of that function. For a non-periodic function, the Fourier transform is the same idea, except that now any frequency is possible because there is no fundamental frequency. The Fourier transform is essentially the coefficient in the Fourier series, and it tells you the weight of a given frequency in the composition of the non-periodic function.
 
Mute said:
No, that's not correct. For the function f(x) = x, the Fourier transform is the derivative of the delta function. (The Fourier transform in this case must be interpreted as a generalised function aka a distribution).

To understand what the frequency of a non-periodic function is: For periodic functions you can write down a Fourier series; that is, the function can be written as the sum of infinitely many sinusoids. However, the frequencies of the sinusoids are restricted to multiples of the fundamental frequency of that function. For a non-periodic function, the Fourier transform is the same idea, except that now any frequency is possible because there is no fundamental frequency. The Fourier transform is essentially the coefficient in the Fourier series, and it tells you the weight of a given frequency in the composition of the non-periodic function.

Oh yes that's right, it's the derivative of delta, my mistake.

Ok I understand. Just one thing: what coefficient of the Fourier series are you talking about? an, bn or [tex]\frac{nπ}{L}[/tex]?
 
Last edited:
I have a possible misconception that relates to the OP, and that maybe someone can clarify. I thought that, when making a Fourier approximation of an arbitrary, non-periodic function, you would make the approximation on a specific region of the curve (for example, with x in the interval [-2,2], or whatever)... and imagine this curve segment as "one period" of a (nonexistent) periodic function that would repeat over and over this curve segment. Similarly, when analyzing an incoming, "data-stream-like" signal, you would take a fixed-sized "window" on that data, and treat it again like "one period". Is this how Fourier analysis is supposed to work, or am I too far off?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K
  • · Replies 47 ·
2
Replies
47
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K