What force keeps the planets orbiting normally?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter r731
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Force Planets
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the forces that maintain planetary orbits, specifically the balance between gravitational attraction and inertia. Newton's laws describe how gravity acts as a centripetal force, preventing planets from collapsing into the Sun. The concept of centrifugal force is mentioned but clarified as a non-inertial frame phenomenon, not a true force acting on the planets. The conversation emphasizes that gravity is the primary force governing orbits, with inertia playing a supportive role.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Newton's laws of motion
  • Familiarity with gravitational forces and centripetal motion
  • Basic knowledge of orbital mechanics
  • Concept of inertial and non-inertial frames of reference
NEXT STEPS
  • Study Newton's law of universal gravitation in detail
  • Explore the concept of centripetal force in circular motion
  • Learn about general relativity and its implications for gravity
  • Investigate the dynamics of multi-body systems in astrophysics
USEFUL FOR

Astronomy enthusiasts, physics students, and educators looking to deepen their understanding of planetary motion and the forces at play in orbital dynamics.

r731
Messages
40
Reaction score
6
Let G be a graph where vertices are heavy planets and edges are forces between the incident vertices.

A complete graph K6 of six planets (of different masses) has 15 edges, why don't the planets collapse to the center?
 
  • Like
  • Skeptical
Likes   Reactions: Delta2 and davenn
Astronomy news on Phys.org
What's the connection with physics?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: russ_watters and davenn
Planets aren't arranged like that, for a start.

Essentially, orbits work because the objects are moving fast enough that their paths curve towards the Sun at the exact rate they need to move in a circle (or ellipse, more usually). Newton provided a plausibility argument (nice explanation and animations at Wikipedia), and developed the detailed maths.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: russ_watters and davenn
r731 said:
Let G be a graph where vertices are heavy planets and edges are forces between the incident vertices.

A complete graph K6 of six planets (of different masses) has 15 edges, why don't the planets collapse to the center?
Well the forces between planets are considered "kind of" negligible (because their mass isn't so big in relation to the vast distance that separates the planets) and they don't affect a lot the orbit of the planets, it is the force between each planet and the sun that primarily determines the orbit of each planet.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: r731 and Ibix
r731 said:
A complete graph K6 of six planets (of different masses) has 15 edges, why don't the planets collapse to the center?

Let's say "planet" means planet-like object. If you arrange them this way, then they need to have a tangential velocity in order to prevent them from collapsing into the center. If you have n "planets" with the identical mass m at the positions

##r_i = R \cdot \left( {\begin{array}{*{20}c} {\cos \varphi _i } \\ {\sin \varphi _i } \\ \end{array}} \right)##

with

##\varphi _i = 2 \cdot \pi \cdot \frac{i}{n}##

they would be accelerated with

##\ddot r_i = G \cdot m \cdot \sum\limits_{j \ne i} {\frac{{r_j - r_i }}{{\left| {r_j - r_i } \right|^3 }}} ##

towards the center and would need to move with the speed

##\left| {\dot r} \right| = \sqrt {R \cdot \left| {\ddot r} \right|} ##

to remain on a circular path.

However, such a configuration is not stable. This example with 6 Jupiter-like objects in a common orbit of 1 AU turns into chaos after 5 revolutions:

https://tinyurl.com/ybw8kyhv
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: r731 and Buzz Bloom
@r731 planets/objects generally don't fall into the sun while orbiting it because of centrifugal force which counteracts gravity and keeps them in balance. The same reason why satellites can orbit Earth and not fall down.

In fact centrifugal force is a way by which one can produce "artificial gravity" because the force that pushes on clothes that rotates within a centrifuge washing machine is identical to gravity.

http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~pfrancis/roleplay/MysteryPlanet/Orbits/
 
  • Skeptical
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: davenn, Vanadium 50, weirdoguy and 2 others
artis said:
because of centrifugal force

Which exists only in non-inertial frames. I find it risky to explain things by using inertial forces because people usually don't understand them properly.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: DrStupid, Delta2 and Ibix
artis said:
@r731 planets/objects generally don't fall into the sun while orbiting it because of centrifugal force which counteracts gravity and keeps them in balance.

Newton's second law applies to planetary orbits with the gravitational force only; there is no counterbalancing centrifugal force. In Newtonian physics, gravity acts as a centripetal force.

If we apply general relativity, then there are no forces acting on the planets, gravitational, centrifugal or otherwise.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Klystron
@PeroK @weirdoguy
Ok I agree , not the best explanation one could give. Pardon.
Gravity being the invisible "string" that provides centripetal force to keep planets in circular orbits should of have sufficed.
 
  • #10
There's no single force that can keep planets in orbit around the Sun. Gravity and inertia are two major forces that do it, and gravity is the major one.
 
  • Skeptical
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: weirdoguy, Vanadium 50 and Delta2
  • #11
SpaceJacob said:
Gravity and inertia are two major forces

Since when inertia is a force?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: russ_watters, Vanadium 50, Delta2 and 2 others

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K