What Form Does Matter Take When a Star 'Explodes'?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the forms that matter takes when a star undergoes an explosive event, such as a supernova or transitions from a red giant to a white dwarf. Participants explore the types of matter emitted, including gases, dust, and larger chunks, as well as the conditions under which these forms arise.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the matter emitted during a star's explosion includes photons, neutrinos, protons, electrons, and possibly neutrons, while others suggest that the high-energy nature of the explosion may limit the amount of dust produced.
  • There is a discussion about whether atomic matter can form larger chunks under certain conditions, with analogies made to snow compressing into a snowball.
  • Some participants note that the transition from red giant to white dwarf is relatively quiet, leading to the ejection of gas and dust, but the size constraints of any resulting chunks remain unclear.
  • One participant questions whether heavy elements found on Earth originate from red giant transitions or supernovae, suggesting skepticism about the production of heavy elements in red giant ejecta.
  • Another participant states that elements heavier than iron can only be produced by supernovae, while lighter elements can be produced by average stars, indicating a mix of stellar and supernova ejecta in Earth's composition.
  • A new participant asks about the size of dust particles that can form larger chunks, specifically referencing gold, and how these particles might accumulate to form deposits that can be mined.
  • Responses indicate that the molten state of early Earth allowed for chemical reactions that led to the clumping of elements, and that trace amounts of elements like gold and uranium can be found throughout the Earth’s crust.
  • One participant mentions that presolar grains from supernovae contain specific isotopes, suggesting a cooling process that allowed for the formation of minerals from these grains.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the forms of matter produced during stellar explosions and the origins of heavy elements. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on specific size constraints or the exact processes involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the understanding of size constraints for chunks of matter and the conditions necessary for their formation. There is also uncertainty about the specific contributions of red giant transitions versus supernovae in producing heavy elements.

wawatson
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When a star comes to the end of one phase in its life (eg red giant -> white dwarf), or simply 'explodes', it results in the emission of a huge amount of matter (and energy, of course).

But what form does that matter take ??

If the star has been cool enough (or when the emitted matter cools sufficiently), is the matter in the form of dust? Or larger chunks? And how large can these chunks be?
 
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But what form does that matter take ??
Photons, neutrinos, protons, electrons, probably some neutrons as well. They can accelerate dust somewhere else, but the process is so high-energetic that I would not expect much dust from the supernova itself.

Edit: Oh, I forgot other nuclei, right. Apart from hydrogen, we are all made out of those nuclei!
 
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So the star will basically 'spray' elementary stuff into space. That stuff must include nuclei - maybe as ions which can later recombine with electrons, also sprayed out.

But surely, given the right conditions, atomic matter must be a strong candidate. So the question is just how big these chunks can be. Or, alternatively, is the cloud of matter blown off as ions/atoms simply waiting for gravitational collapse (or gravitationally attracted to a larger mass) before it can gain any real solidity - almost like squeezing snow to form a snowball or (with more pressure) a block of ice?

I appreciate that there may be some explosions (eg supernova) which will, I agree disrupt any assembly. But what about events like the Red Giant transition to White Dwarf ... how powerful and cool (thermally) are those ejections?
 
Red giant transition to white dwarf is rather quiet, although they do tend to blow off their outer layers creating planetary nebula. It is generally thought these ejecta are composed of gas and dust. It is certainly possible 'chunks' could form during this process, but, what, if any, size constraints may exist are unclear.
 
Chronos said:
Red giant transition to white dwarf is rather quiet, although they do tend to blow off their outer layers creating planetary nebula. It is generally thought these ejecta are composed of gas and dust. It is certainly possible 'chunks' could form during this process, but, what, if any, size constraints may exist are unclear.

So, does that indicate that the heavier elements which are part of accretion discs that form stars with rocky planets, come from 'Red giant transitions', or from the exploded cores of super nova?
I didn't think that the heavy elements found in the Earth could have been produced in the ejected layers of a Red giant.



Damo
 
Correct, elements heavier than iron/nickel can only be produced by supernova. But, there is an abundance of lighter elements on Earth than can be produced by average stars. Earth is composed of a combination of stellar and supernova ejecta.
 
Hello! I'm new in the forum and I was reading this post, and I also have a question about the size of the chunks.
For example, gold is heavier than iron, so it is created during a supernova explosion (please correct me if I'm wrong). So, how big are those dust particles that end up in space? We can find gold on Earth in gold mines, for example. How it comes that this gold dust comes together to form bigger chunks that can be mined?
Thank you and sorry for my ignorance :)
 
Earth was completely molten initially (and most of it still is), the elements clumped together afterwards due to chemical reactions on earth.
 
Thanks for your answer! As I understand, the different temperatures of the molten Earth did like a separation process on the mixed dust and that's why we can find deposits?
Could this also mean that across all the globe there is still dust of gold and uranium, for example, mixed within the rocks and sand we walk on daily?
Thanks!
 
  • #10
robertito said:
Thanks for your answer! As I understand, the different temperatures of the molten Earth did like a separation process on the mixed dust and that's why we can find deposits?
Could this also mean that across all the globe there is still dust of gold and uranium, for example, mixed within the rocks and sand we walk on daily?
Thanks!

Yes, there are trace amounts of those elements practically everywhere.
 
  • #11
Sea water has ~3 micrograms of uranium per liter, and rock has about 4 micrograms of gold per kg - with local peaks of some milligrams.

Those traces are a significant problem for neutrino experiments, for example - you always have some radioactive elements remaining in the detector.
 
  • #12
mfb said:
Photons, neutrinos, protons, electrons, probably some neutrons as well. They can accelerate dust somewhere else, but the process is so high-energetic that I would not expect much dust from the supernova itself.

Unexpectedly, many presolar grains do come from supernovae. They namely contain calcium mostly in calcium 44.

This could only have come from titanium 44. But the half-life of titanium 44 is mere 59 years.

This proves that the nebula must have somehow cooled within a few decades to the point where titanium could freeze into minerals which rejected then existing calcium - but incorporated titanium 44 before it decayed into calcium.
 

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