What happens if you bombard a dead body with protons? (not sure how many)

  • Thread starter Thread starter sushshaf
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Protons
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical scenario of bombarding a dead body with protons, exploring implications related to life restoration, carbon dating, and the Shroud of Turin. Participants engage with concepts from physics, biology, and cultural references, questioning the feasibility and consequences of such actions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether bombarding a dead body with protons could restore life, with one questioning the definition of "dead."
  • Others argue that such bombardment would likely lead to further degradation of the body, rather than restoration.
  • There are discussions about the implications of increasing C14 readings through proton bombardment, with some suggesting that altering isotope content would invalidate radiocarbon dating.
  • References to cultural artifacts like the Shroud of Turin and fictional works, such as Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein," are made to illustrate points about life, death, and reanimation.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the scientific basis of the original question, suggesting it belongs in a different context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the feasibility of restoring life through proton bombardment, with multiple competing views expressed regarding the effects of such an action and the implications for scientific understanding.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include unresolved questions about the nature of death, the validity of carbon dating in light of potential alterations, and the speculative nature of reanimation theories.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may interest those exploring the intersections of physics, biology, and cultural artifacts, as well as fans of speculative fiction and its implications on scientific concepts.

sushshaf
I have been watching videos about the Shroud of Turin. I knew that it was Carbon dated to medieval times. I knew that they were able to produce a 3D image that is not possible with photos.
I also knew that linen turns yellow when exposed to the sun. https://www.allcottonandlinen.com/b...Light Exposure:,the material a yellowish tint.
I recently came to know of the Sudarium of Oviedo and all the other tests done on both pieces.
https://shroud.com/
The Sudarium was C14 dated to about 700 which is when its provenance became known.
The Sudarium and Shroud both have blood on them of AB type. They also have matching blood stains. The stains also prove pre and post mortem blood also serum which only shows up under certain wave lengths.
There are some documents that date prior to 1300 which have images of the burial showing the unusual weave 3*1 Z twist. eg Hungarian Pray Codex.
So working with the position that something really happened, my question became can we increase C14 readings. You can N14 + neutrons gives C14 + protons
https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/isotopes/decay.html#:~:text=The latter slow down, again,in a 14C nucleus.
My final question is If you bombard a dead body with protons, can you restore life?
 
Biology news on Phys.org
sushshaf said:
My final question is If you bombard a dead body with protons, can you restore life?
What do we all win if we guess right? I'm thinking the odds in Vegas are a bit skewed. But I'll play anyway; if you can get it past an IRB, of course.
 
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: russ_watters
sushshaf said:
My final question is If you bombard a dead body with protons, can you restore life?
Define dead.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: russ_watters and BillTre
sushshaf said:
If you bombard a dead body with protons, can you restore life?

No. If anything, I would expect it to become even more dead.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: russ_watters, Klystron, BillTre and 2 others
sushshaf said:
My final question is If you bombard a dead body with protons, can you restore life?
Dead bodies decompose over time.

If anything, a flux of protons (ionizing radiation) would produce further degradation of what material remains.

Borek said:
No. If anything, I would expect it to become even more dead.
More decomposed perhaps.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BillTre and pinball1970
sushshaf said:
Shroud both have blood on them of AB type
In terms of genetics, that would raise interesting questions.
 
pinball1970 said:
In terms of genetics, that would raise interesting questions.
What blood type does god have?
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BillTre, berkeman and pinball1970
sushshaf said:
My final question is If you bombard a dead body with protons, can you restore life?
You need to find a forum devoted to mysticism and nonsense. This is a science forum.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dextercioby, BillTre and PeroK
sushshaf said:
So working with the position that something really happened, my question became can we increase C14 readings. You can N14 + neutrons gives C14 + protons
What does 'increase C14 readings' mean? If you alter the isotope content, then the radiocarbon dating is useless.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BillTre
  • #10
sushshaf said:
my question became can we increase C14 readings
What do you mean by that? Increase its C14 concentration? Sure, just add some C14 to it. Or mix it with modern organic material. Besides ruining the sample, what would be the purpose of that?
sushshaf said:
My final question is If you bombard a dead body with protons, can you restore life?
If you burn a log, does it become a tree?
No.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BillTre
  • #11
sushshaf said:
So working with the position that something really happened
Sure...something happened. The question is whether something happened other than a 14th century relic-seller deciding he needed new inventory.

That seems to be more likely than a pre-industriual particle accelerator used to foil carbon dating centuries later.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Klystron, pinball1970, BillTre and 1 other person
  • #12
Baluncore said:
Define dead.
Is that like "Mostly dead"?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BillTre
  • #13
Vanadium 50 said:
Is that like "Mostly dead"?
Reminds me of Michael Palin and John Cleese in Monte Python's dead parrot sketch.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: pinball1970 and BillTre
  • #14
Astronuc said:
Reminds me of Michael Palin and John Cleese in Monte Python's dead parrot sketch.
I think it was more of a Miracle Max reference.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: russ_watters
  • #15
The shroud of Turin remains a beautiful artifact from a painter's hand resembling, perhaps anticipating x-rays, light radiating from a corpse. The body appears strong, masterful, in charge. Dead.

Mary Shelley's (fictional) Frankenstein passed strong electrical currents through dead human body parts reattached via surgery; achieving semblance of life and free will. Doubt if changing from electrons to protons would improve reanimation of dead tissue.

Twentieth-century writer scientist Isaac Asimov gave his humanoid robots positronic brains with immutable rules of conduct embedded within each construct. Novel "I, Robot" discusses reproducing a dead human through robotics.
 
  • #16
Klystron said:
Frankenstein
"That brain that you put in...was it Hans Delbruck's?"
 
  • #17
I think that's enough for this thread. Thread locked.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BillTre and DaveE