What happens to information inside a black hole?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of information inside black holes and the potential connection between black holes and white holes. Participants explore theoretical models, energy conservation, and the implications of Hawking radiation, while expressing curiosity about current scientific understanding and unresolved questions in the field.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose a connection between black holes and white holes, suggesting that if black holes do not destroy matter, there might be a link to white holes.
  • Others argue that while there is a mathematical model suggesting a connection, it is not physically realized in our universe.
  • One participant mentions that current theory indicates black holes emit Hawking radiation, which carries energy away and could eventually lead to the loss of the black hole's mass, though the timescale for this process is extremely long.
  • Questions arise about the specific mathematical models being referenced, including whether they relate to the maximally extended Schwarzschild solution or other complex models involving quantum effects.
  • There is a consensus that no definitive model exists that answers what happens to information inside a black hole, with various speculative models proposed but lacking evidence for distinction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the connection between black holes and white holes, and there is no consensus on the existence of a definitive model explaining the fate of information inside black holes. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these theories.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of a physically realized model connecting black and white holes, and the speculative nature of current theories regarding information and energy conservation in black holes.

praneel ghate
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I am 9th-grade student who's curious about blackholes and the idea that they might be connected to white holes. I read about energy conservation and wondered: if black holes don't destroy matter, could the process be linked to a white hole somehow ?
I'm not claiming a theory- I just want to understand what current science says about this
 
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praneel ghate said:
I am 9th-grade student who's curious about blackholes and the idea that they might be connected to white holes.
There is a mathematical model in which that's true, but it's not one that is physically realized in our universe.

praneel ghate said:
I read about energy conservation and wondered: if black holes don't destroy matter, could the process be linked to a white hole somehow ?
No, because in the mathematical model I referred to above, the white hole is to the past of the black hole, not its future. So there's no way for something that falls into a black hole to come out of a white hole that's connected to it.

Again, that model is not one that is physically realized anyway.
 
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praneel ghate said:
I read about energy conservation and wondered: if black holes don't destroy matter, could the process be linked to a white hole somehow ?
Current theory suggests that black holes aren't completely black - they emit something called Hawking radiation. This carries energy away from the hole, reducing its mass, and we expect it to eventually carry away all of the hole's mass. So whatever happens inside the black hole, eventually the energy comes back out.

Note that "eventually" is doing a lot of work here. The timescale for this process is many, many times the current age of the universe, so it's not a theory any of us will live to see tested.
 
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PeterDonis said:
There is a mathematical model in which that's true, but it's not one that is physically realized in our universe.
What model are we talking about?

"mathematical model physically realized in our universe"


*Sorry if I wasn't very expressive. After reading Peter's answer, I have two questions:

What model are you referring to that connects black and white holes? (Are you referring to the maximally extended Schwarzschild solution in Kruskal coordinates or another more complex model, since there are quantum effects and therefore evaporation?)

And, what is the mathematical model physically realized in our universe that answers the question "what happens to information inside a blackhole"?
 
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javisot said:
What model are you referring to that connects black and white holes? (Are you referring to the maximally extended Schwarzschild solution
Yes.

javisot said:
in Kruskal coordinates
The coordinates don't matter; the model is the same regardless of what chart you use. The Kruskal chart is useful because it covers the entire maximally extended spacetime with a single patch. But that doesn't mean the coordinates define the spacetime. They don't.

javisot said:
or another more complex model, since there are quantum effects and therefore evaporation?
No.

javisot said:
what is the mathematical model physically realized in our universe that answers the question "what happens to information inside a blackhole"?
We don't have one; we don't currently know the answer to this question. We have a number of different speculative models, but no evidence that would allow us to distinguish between them.
 
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