Can black hole studies shed any light on dark matter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the potential connections between black hole studies, particularly those conducted by the Event Horizon Telescope, and the nature of dark matter. Participants express curiosity about whether insights from black hole research could inform our understanding of dark matter, while also addressing the challenges and limitations of such inquiries.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that studies of black holes might provide clues about dark matter, although they acknowledge uncertainty about how this could occur.
  • One participant argues that dark matter does not clump readily, suggesting that its density near black holes is likely too low to impact measurements related to black holes.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that dark matter annihilations could be more common near supermassive black holes due to increased density, indicating a potential avenue for research, though it would require different observational techniques.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of definitive signs of dark matter annihilation, with some participants noting that while there may have been signals, nothing conclusive has been detected.
  • Participants discuss the inherent challenges in detecting dark matter, emphasizing that models predict weak signals due to dark matter's limited interactions with itself and normal matter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some skepticism about the potential for black hole studies to yield insights into dark matter. There is no consensus on the effectiveness of using black holes to study dark matter or the implications of dark matter annihilation observations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the limitations in current dark matter models and the challenges in detecting dark matter, which may depend on various assumptions and definitions that remain unresolved in the discussion.

BWV
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Curious if the ongoing studies of black holes at the centers of galaxies, like the Event Horizon Telescope, might provide some clues about the nature of dark matter. Tried googling this, but all I get is articles debating, mostly to the negative, the hypothesis that dark matter might be accounted for by black holes, which is not what I am asking here. I don't know how this might happen, but curious if it is possible
 
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BWV said:
Curious if the ongoing studies of black holes at the centers of galaxies, like the Event Horizon Telescope, might provide some clues about the nature of dark matter. Tried googling this, but all I get is articles debating, mostly to the negative, the hypothesis that dark matter might be accounted for by black holes, which is not what I am asking here. I don't know how this might happen, but curious if it is possible
Probably not. Dark matter tends to not clump very readily, so that the density of dark matter near a black hole is likely to be far, far too low for it to have any impact on any measurements like this which we might wish to perform.

Our best bet for making use of black holes to measure dark matter is via dark matter annihilations: while dark matter isn't very dense, it's still more dense near dense objects, such as supermassive black holes. And if it's more dense, then dark matter annihilations, though still rare, will be more common. So looking in this direction for such annihilations is something that might be worthwhile. But it would be using completely different observation techniques than the black hole shadow images, and would have no impact on the interpretation of these images either.
 
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This has to be one of the "all time best" thread starter puns. . . I've ever seen. .
lmao.gif


Can black hole studies shed any light on dark matter

:thumbup:.:thumbup:

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Thanks. It looks like dark matter annihilation are another big zero (no signs of any have been seen, right?), so it maybe excludes certain candidate particles, but little else
 
"Can black hole studies shed any light on dark matter "
OCR said:
This has to be one of the "all time best" thread starter puns. . . I've ever seen. .
This is a signature-worthy line...
:bow:
 
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BWV said:
Thanks. It looks like dark matter annihilation are another big zero (no signs of any have been seen, right?), so it maybe excludes certain candidate particles, but little else
There may have been some signals, but nothing definitive yet.

The difficulty is that most dark matter models tend to predict very weak signals, which means that we don't actually expect it to be easy to detect dark matter at all. The fundamental reason is simple: for dark matter to explain the astrophysical observations, it can't interact very readily either with itself or with normal matter. So it's frustrating that we haven't gotten any definitive dark matter detections yet, but patience is warranted. It could still be a few decades. This stuff is just that challenging.
 
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