What is Plasma? Is Tungsten Vapour a Gas or Plasma?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the definition of plasma and the classification of tungsten vapor at its boiling point. Participants explore the criteria that distinguish plasma from gas, particularly in the context of high-temperature elements like tungsten and comparisons to other states of matter, including the plasma state of the Sun.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to measure whether a fluid is classified as a gas or plasma, using mercury and tungsten as examples.
  • Another participant asserts that plasma is defined as ionized gas and emphasizes that the Sun is primarily composed of hydrogen, not tungsten.
  • A subsequent post raises a question about the ionization energies of hydrogen and tungsten, suggesting that if hydrogen is ionized at a certain temperature, tungsten might also be ionized at that temperature.
  • A detailed explanation of plasma characteristics is provided, including criteria such as the plasma approximation, bulk interactions, and plasma frequency, which help define plasma behavior compared to gases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of tungsten vapor and the conditions under which it may be considered a plasma. There is no consensus on whether tungsten vapor at boiling point is a gas or a plasma, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific temperatures and ionization energies but do not reach a definitive conclusion regarding the classification of tungsten vapor. The criteria for defining plasma are discussed but may depend on specific conditions and definitions that are not fully resolved in the conversation.

snorkack
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What is "plasma"? How is a fluid measured to be either a gas or a plasma?

Mercury boils at 359 Celsius (632 Kelvin). Mercury vapour is poorly conductive, little ionized (incidentally - monoatomic) and generally defined as a gas.

However, tungsten boils at 5930 C (6203 K).

Photosphere of Sun at 5785 K is generally regarded as plasma, and specifically not gas.

Is tungsten vapour at boiling point a gas, or is it a plasma?

Are there any other elements which lack gas phase because they are plasma at boiling?
 
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Plasma is ionized gas.
The sun is not made of tungsten.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Plasma is ionized gas.
The sun is not made of tungsten.
Indeed - Sun is made of hydrogen.
H atom first ionization energy is 13,6 eV
W atom first ionization energy is 7,98 eV
Does it mean that at a temperature where H is ionized, W certainly is?
 
snorkack said:
What is "plasma"? How is a fluid measured to be either a gas or a plasma?

There are several criteria. From wiki:
Plasma is an electrically neutral medium of unbound positive and negative particles (i.e. the overall charge of a plasma is roughly zero). Although these particles are unbound, they are not "free" in the sense of not experiencing forces. Moving charged particles generate an electric current within a magnetic field, and any movement of a charged plasma particle affects and is affected by the fields created by the other charges. In turn this governs collective behaviour with many degrees of variation.[10][23] Three factors define a plasma:[24][25]

  1. The plasma approximation: The plasma approximation applies when the plasma parameter, Λ,[26] representing the number of charge carriers within a sphere (called the Debye sphere whose radius is the Debye screening length) surrounding a given charged particle, is sufficiently high as to shield the electrostatic influence of the particle outside of the sphere.[21][22]
  2. Bulk interactions: The Debye screening length (defined above) is short compared to the physical size of the plasma. This criterion means that interactions in the bulk of the plasma are more important than those at its edges, where boundary effects may take place. When this criterion is satisfied, the plasma is quasineutral.[27]
  3. Plasma frequency: The electron plasma frequency (measuring plasma oscillations of the electrons) is large compared to the electron-neutral collision frequency (measuring frequency of collisions between electrons and neutral particles). When this condition is valid, electrostatic interactions dominate over the processes of ordinary gas kinetics.[28]
 

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