What is the best Quantum Model to solve many body problems?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the best quantum models for solving many-body problems, particularly in the context of quantum chemistry and biochemistry. Participants explore various methods and models used to calculate molecular properties and describe complex quantum systems involving multiple particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants mention the Schrödinger equation, Feynman Path Integral method, and Heisenberg Matrix formulation as foundational approaches to quantum mechanical systems.
  • One participant suggests that the Schrödinger-equation approach is the most widely used method in quantum chemistry.
  • Another participant describes the Hartree-Fock method and coupled cluster methods as common techniques for solving the ground state energy of molecular electronic Hamiltonians, emphasizing the reliance on matrix methods and eigenvalue problems.
  • Participants discuss the use of classical molecular dynamics in biochemistry, often utilizing force fields derived from quantum chemistry methods.
  • There is a debate regarding the nature of coupled cluster methods, with one participant asserting it is an approximation technique with significant physical implications, while another questions its physical relevance, suggesting it pertains more to hardware and numerical techniques.
  • In the context of condensed matter physics, some participants advocate for the Hubbard model, highlighting its ability to describe various phenomena such as Mott insulators and superfluid transitions, and mention the use of density functional theory (DFT) for non-interacting systems.
  • Further discussion includes the application of DMFT for strongly correlated systems and DMRG for studying entangled states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the best methods and models for addressing many-body problems, with no clear consensus reached on a single approach. The discussion remains unresolved with various perspectives on the applicability and significance of different techniques.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of many-body problems and the limitations of existing methods, noting that analytical solutions are often unavailable and numerical methods are required. There is also mention of dependencies on specific definitions and assumptions related to the models discussed.

jonjacson
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I know to describe Quantum Mechanical systems we can use:

-Schrödinger equation
-Feynman Path Integral method
-Heisenberg Matrix formulation

Well my question is, if you want to calculate molecular properties, and want to understand biochemistry (protein), you have a system with several quantum particles right?. What would be the best method to do this calculations? What is commonly used in Quantum Chemistry and Biochemistry?

Obviously I guess there are not analytical solutions to most problems so you need to use numerical methods. Is anybody familiar with Quantum Chemistry?

THanks!
 
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In quantum chemistry, I think, the Schrödinger-equation approach is the most widely used method.
 
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In quantum chemistry, one typically uses the Hartree-Fock method (for low accuracy) and coupled cluster methods (for high accuracy) to solve for the ground state energy (or in certain cases for the few lowest energy levels) of the molecular electronic Hamiltonian in dependence on the positions of the nuclei. Although the time-independent Schroedinger equation is solved, the methods are matrix methods. Everything boils down to find eigenvalus of huge matrices.

The dependence of the ground state energy on the coordinates defines the potential energy surface. This is then used to do classical molecular dynamics or quantum dynamics for the nuclei (quantum surface hopping in case several energy levels can come close). In biochemistry, one usually uses only classical molecular dynamics, using force fields fitted by the above techniques.
 
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A. Neumaier said:
In quantum chemistry, one typically uses the Hartree-Fock method (for low accuracy) and coupled cluster methods (for high accuracy) to solve for the ground state energy (or in certain cases for the few lowest energy levels) of the molecular electronic Hamiltonian in dependence on the positions of the nuclei. Although the time-independent Schroedinger equation is solved, the methods are matrix methods. Everything boils down to find eigenvalus of huge matrices.

The dependence of the ground state energy on the coordinates defines the potential energy surface. This is then used to do classical molecular dynamics or qunatum dynamics for the nuclei (quantum surface hopping in case several energy levels can come close). In biochemistry, one usually uses only classical molecular dynamics, using force fields fitted by the above techniques.

Thanks.

By coupled cluster methods, you are not talking about the physics, it is the hardware and the numerical techniques, Am I correct?
 
jonjacson said:
By coupled cluster methods, you are not talking about the physics, it is the hardware and the numerical techniques, Am I correct?
No. It is an approximation technique with nontrivial physical meaning that goes beyond the Hartree-Fock approximation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupled_cluster
 
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Thanks.
 
Within condensed matter physics, I would say the Hubbard model. It can describe Mott insulators, metal insulator transitions, as well as superfluid insulator transitions (the Bose Hubbard model), magnetically ordered spin states, valence bond solids, spin liquids with topological order, confinement transitions between these phases, and d wave super conductivity for example.

These states can all be described in a field theoretic framework as well. The transition in graphene from a magnetically ordered state is described by the Gross-Nevau model, the 2+1d superfluid transition by a CFT3 (also has a duality between particles and vortices), spin liquids from slave boson/fermion constructions, etc.

In quantum chemistry, the use DFT for non-interacting system you have a density functional with spatial coordinates that determines the ground state properties you reduce a problem of N electrons to just spatial d coordinates. You can solve for the true ground state iteratively.

If the system is interacting you can add a Hubbard U. If you are studying a strongly correlated system you could use DMFT. If you want to study entangled states, you would use DMRG.
 
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radium said:
Within condensed matter physics, I would say the Hubbard model. It can describe Mott insulators, metal insulator transitions, as well as superfluid insulator transitions (the Bose Hubbard model), magnetically ordered spin states, valence bond solids, spin liquids with topological order, confinement transitions between these phases, and d wave super conductivity for example.

These states can all be described in a field theoretic framework as well. The transition in graphene from a magnetically ordered state is described by the Gross-Nevau model, the 2+1d superfluid transition by a CFT3 (also has a duality between particles and vortices), spin liquids from slave boson/fermion constructions, etc.

In quantum chemistry, the use DFT for non-interacting system you have a density functional with spatial coordinates that determines the ground state properties you reduce a problem of N electrons to just spatial d coordinates. You can solve for the true ground state iteratively.

If the system is interacting you can add a Hubbard U. If you are studying a strongly correlated system you could use DMFT. If you want to study entangled states, you would use DMRG.

A lot of very useful and interesting models, thank you.
 

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