What is the definition of max and min for multiple numbers?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Jhenrique
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Definition Max
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the definitions of maximum and minimum functions for multiple numbers, particularly extending the definitions from two numbers to three or more. Participants explore the implications of these definitions and consider the case of complex numbers in relation to orderability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a definition for the maximum of two numbers and inquire about extending this to three numbers.
  • One participant suggests that the maximum of three numbers can be found by comparing two at a time, recursively applying the maximum function.
  • Another participant presents formulas for the minimum and maximum of two numbers, discussing their geometric interpretations.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of these definitions to complex numbers, with some participants stating that complex numbers cannot be ordered in a way that allows for comparisons of greater or lesser values.
  • Participants discuss the implications of complex numbers not forming an "ordered field," highlighting the inconsistency that arises when trying to apply order to them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to define maximum and minimum for multiple numbers, particularly in the context of complex numbers. There is no consensus on a singular definition or approach, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the treatment of complex numbers.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the definitions provided, particularly regarding the orderability of complex numbers and the implications for mathematical operations.

Jhenrique
Messages
676
Reaction score
4
I found in the wiki a definition for the max of 2 numbers:
d3db50d593c35829b03063ad8e62346e.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_function

But is definition is only for 2 numbers, how would be the definition for 3 numbers?

Also, which is the definition of minimum function?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
min(a,b) = (a+b-|a-b|)/2.

I can't see anything analogous for 3 numbers.
 
Jhenrique said:
I found in the wiki a definition for the max of 2 numbers:
d3db50d593c35829b03063ad8e62346e.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_function

But is definition is only for 2 numbers, how would be the definition for 3 numbers?
Maybe you could figure one out.

In any case, being able to calculate the maximum of two numbers is much more important than being able to calculate the maximum of three numbers. You can do this by picking any two of them, and calculating which of the two is larger. Then compare that number with the third number. Whichever number is larger is the maximum of the three numbers. You can extend this idea to four, five, ..., n numbers.
Jhenrique said:
Also, which is the definition of minimum function?
$$Min(a, b) = \frac{a + b - |a - b|}{2}$$

The formula for the maximum of two numbers is straightforward if you look at the geometry.
$$Max(a, b) = \frac{a + b + |a - b|}{2} = \frac{a + b}{2} + \frac{|a - b|}{2}$$
The first fraction on the right is the number that is midway between the points a and b. The second fraction is half the distance between the two points. From the midway point, if you add half the distance between the two points, you end up at whichever point is on the right; i.e., the larger number.

In the formula I wrote for the minimum, the only difference is that we are subtracting half the distance between the two points, which gets us to the point on the left - the smaller number.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
Jhenrique said:
I found in the wiki a definition for the max of 2 numbers:
d3db50d593c35829b03063ad8e62346e.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_function

But is definition is only for 2 numbers, how would be the definition for 3 numbers?

Can't you recurse? max(a,b,c) = max(max(a,b),c).
 
Those formulas not says too when a complex number is greater another?
 
Jhenrique said:
Those formulas not says too when a complex number is greater another?

Complex numbers are not orderable. It is meaningless to speak of one complex number being greater than or less than another.

You can only say that about their magnitudes or arguments (within a defined range of angle measure).
 
Curious3141 said:
Complex numbers are not orderable. It is meaningless to speak of one complex number being greater than or less than another.

Note that when we say that the complex numbers are not orderable, it is not that one cannot come up with a sorting order for them. It is that one cannot come up with a sorting order that is consistent with the way the operations of addition and multiplication are expected to work with an order.

In particular, you want to be able to say that if a > 0 and b > 0 then ab > 0. But if you take a=b=i then ab = -1. That then requires that -1 > 0.

In other words, the complex numbers do not form an "ordered field". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordered_field
 
Last edited:
jbriggs444 said:
Note that when we say that the complex numbers are not orderable, it is not that one cannot come up with a sorting order for them. It is that one cannot come up with a sorting order that is consistent with the way the operations of addition and multiplication are expected to work with an order.

In particular, you want to be able to say that if a > 0 and b > 0 then ab > 0. But if you take a=b=i then ab = -1. That then requires that -1 > 0.

In other words, the complex numbers do not form an "ordered field". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordered_field

I just saw this. I'm aware of the concept of an ordered field, I just didn't want to overcomplicate things when it's not really relevant here.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
997
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K