What is the effect of e^(isH)? p.77, Ballentine

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transformation of quantum states as described in Ballentine's Quantum Mechanics, specifically the effect of the operator e^(isH) on the state vector |Ψ(t)⟩. Participants explore the implications of this transformation, its derivation, and its relation to the Galilei group of space-time transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the meaning of the transformation |Ψ(t)⟩ → e^(isH)|Ψ(t)⟩ = |Ψ(t-s)⟩ and its implications for defining the operator H.
  • Others explain that the operator U(s) can be defined to represent time translations, leading to the conclusion that there exists a unique self-adjoint operator H such that U(t) = exp(-iHt).
  • A participant questions the derivation of the formula and whether the invariance under the Galilei group can be used to derive it, suggesting that further steps are necessary.
  • Some express confusion about the definitions of operators like P, J, and G, and their relation to the transformations described in earlier sections of the text.
  • There is a discussion about the need to understand Lie groups and their generators to grasp the material in later sections of the book.
  • Participants share recommendations for resources to learn about Lie groups and their application in quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the derivation of the transformation or the definitions of the operators. There are multiple competing views on the clarity of the explanations provided in the text and the necessity of understanding Lie groups for further comprehension.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the assumptions underlying the definitions of operators and the conditions that lead to the commutation relations discussed in the text. There is also mention of the need for a deeper understanding of mathematical concepts that are not fully covered in the current discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and readers of quantum mechanics who are grappling with the mathematical foundations of quantum state transformations and the underlying group theory concepts.

syhpehtam
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Hi guys, I am reading Ballentine's Quantum Mechanics book, and I am stuck on p.77.
Corresponding to the time displacement t\rightarrow t'=t+s, there is a vector space transformation of the form (3.8),
<br /> |\Psi(t)\rangle\rightarrow e^{isH}|\Psi(t)\rangle=|\Psi(t-s)\rangle.<br />
I don't know how the above formula comes, what is the effect of e^{isH} when it acts on a vector?
In this page, there is also a sentence that I don't understand:
The dynamics of a free particle are invariant under the full Galilei group of space-time transformations, and this turns out to be sufficient to completely identify the operators for its dynamical variables.
Does this sentence imply something that can derive the above formula?
 
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##|\Psi(t)\rangle## is the vector that you would use to represent the state of the system at time t. ##|\Psi(t-s)\rangle## is the vector you would use to represent the state of the same system s seconds earlier, or equivalently, the vector you would have used instead of ##|\Psi(t)\rangle## if you had been using a coordinate system in which the time coordinate reaches 0 s seconds later than in the coordinate system you're using now.

We can define a family of unitary operators (one for each s) by ##U(s)|\Psi(t)\rangle=|\Psi(t+s)\rangle##. We assume that the function U satisfies U(t+s)=U(t)U(s). This is how the idea of translational invariance of time is incorporated into QM. Now there's a theorem (Stone's) that tells us that since U has this property, there's a unique self-adjoint operator H such that U(t)=exp(-iHt) for all t. The Hamiltonian is defined as that operator.

The function U in this case is a group homomorphism from the group ##(\mathbb R,+)## into the group of unitary operators on our Hilbert space. The group ##(\mathbb R,+)## is (isomorphic to) the group of translations in time. To claim that "the dynamics of a free particle are invariant under the full Galilei group of space-time transformations" is to claim that we can do essentially the same thing with any one-parameter subgroup of the Galilei group, not just the time translation group.
 
syhpehtam said:
[...Ballentine...]
I don't know how the above formula comes, what is the effect of e^{isH} when it acts on a vector?
The action of transformations of wavefunctions was already explained in sections 3.1 and 3.2. The details of the Galilei group of transformations was explained in sections 3.2 & 3.3. So I'm kinda surprised that you had trouble on p77.

Maybe you should re-study those earlier sections and see whether there's still anything in there you don't understand.

In this page, there is also a sentence that I don't understand:
[...]
Does this sentence imply something that can derive the above formula?
No. Up to this point he's been using the familiar properties of space and time to derive stuff. E.g., he derived earlier a geometric quantity "P" that generates spatial translations. But to make the leap from there to seeing "P" as being also the familiar dynamical quantity we call "momentum", an extra step is necessary -- which is what section 3.4 is all about.
 
I am sorry for replying so late. It seems that Ballentine uses |\Psi(t)\rangle\rightarrow e^{isH}|\Psi(t)\rangle=|\Psi(t-s)\rangle to define the operator H, the formula is a definition. Are formulas (3.40)|\mathbf x\rangle\rightarrow|\mathbf x\rangle&#039;=e^{-i\mathbf a\cdot\mathbf P}|\mathbf x\rangle=|\mathbf x+\mathbf a\rangle, (3.45)|\mathbf x\rangle\rightarrow|\mathbf x\rangle&#039;=e^{-i\theta\hat{n}\cdot\mathbf J}|\mathbf x\rangle=|\mathbf x&#039;\rangle and (3.49)e^{i\mathbf v\cdot\mathbf G}\mathbf Ve^{-i\mathbf v\cdot\mathbf G}=\mathbf V-\mathbf vI also definitions which define operators \mathbf P, \mathbf J and \mathbf G? If so, why those operators should be defined like this? And how can Ballentine know that those opertors which he defined satisfy the commutation relations(3.35)? I feel that I really don't know what section 3.4 is talking about.

I think that section 3.1~3.3 is talking about some mappings U(\tau), these mappings satisfy the following conditions:
1)the value |\langle\phi|\psi\rangle| should be preserved.
2)U(\tau_2\tau_1)=e^{i\omega}U(\tau_2)U(\tau_1), and when \tau_1,\tau_2 are both the same kind of elementary transformations like rotations, displacements, etc., \omega=0.

We know that for any set of mappings satisfying the above conditions, there correspond a set of operators, namely \mathbf J,\mathbf P,\mathbf G and H. And we can choose some special sets of mappings so that the commutation relations between their opertors can be simplified to formula(3.35).

This is what I've got from those sections, I don't know whether or not I misunderstood something.
 
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From the last two paragraphs of sec.3.2, does the author regard the state vector |\Psi\rangle as a function \Psi:(x,y,z,t)\mapsto\Psi(x,y,z,t), and U(\tau)|\Psi\rangle=|\Psi&#039;\rangle such that \Psi&#039;(x,y,z,t)=e^{i\omega}\Psi(\tau^{-1}(x,y,z,t))?
The set of mappings U(\tau) satisfy the conditions in #4.
 
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syhpehtam said:
It seems that Ballentine uses |\Psi(t)\rangle\rightarrow e^{isH}|\Psi(t)\rangle=|\Psi(t-s)\rangle to define the operator H, the formula is a definition. Are formulas (3.40)|\mathbf x\rangle\rightarrow|\mathbf x\rangle&#039;=e^{-i\mathbf a\cdot\mathbf P}|\mathbf x\rangle=|\mathbf x+\mathbf a\rangle, (3.45)|\mathbf x\rangle\rightarrow|\mathbf x\rangle&#039;=e^{-i\theta\hat{n}\cdot\mathbf J}|\mathbf x\rangle=|\mathbf x&#039;\rangle and (3.49)e^{i\mathbf v\cdot\mathbf G}\mathbf Ve^{-i\mathbf v\cdot\mathbf G}=\mathbf V-\mathbf vI also definitions which define operators \mathbf P, \mathbf J and \mathbf G? If so, why those operators should be defined like this? And how can Ballentine know that those operators which he defined satisfy the commutation relations(3.35)? I feel that I really don't know what section 3.4 is talking about.
They are defined as generators of the Galilei group in section 3.3 (which assumes the reader has understood sect 3.2). This is crucial. You won't understand later sections unless you understand the concept of a Lie group and its infinitesimal generators, and the applicability of these to spacetime transformations.

After that, the next step is to understand the concept of representing these abstract quantities as operators on a Hilbert space of abstract states, and then on a Hilbert space of wavefunctions. E.g., ##|\Psi\rangle## is an abstract state in an abstract Hilbert space, whereas ##\Psi(x)## is a wavefunction in a Hilbert space of square-integrable functions.
This is what Ballentine means in the 1st sentence of the last paragraph on p67 where he
says "[...] when the abstract vector ##|\Psi\rangle## is represented as a function of space-time coordinates [...]".
 
strangerep said:
You won't understand later sections unless you understand the concept of a Lie group and its infinitesimal generators, and the applicability of these to spacetime transformations.
I haven't learned Lie group before. I only know a little elementary knowledge about groups. I think I should learn the mathematics of Lie group or group theory which you mentioned. Can you please recommend some books from which I can learn this kind of mathematics? I've found the book "Lie Algebras in Particle Physics" by Howard Georgi, is this book suitable?
 
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syhpehtam said:
If so, why those operators should be defined like this?

Are the exponents throwing you off? If so, you just need to understand how to go from infinitesimal to finite transformations.

I don't think you should need to read a whole book on Lie Algebra to understand that. Some QM books have a decent enough explanation. I prefer Shankar, myself, and he devotes at least a section, or two, to showing this.
 
dm4b said:
I don't think you should need to read a whole book on Lie Algebra to understand that. Some QM books have a decent enough explanation. I prefer Shankar, myself, and he devotes at least a section, or two, to showing this.
I don't need to read the whole book, I can choose a few chapters on the mathematics which I concern about to read.
I know Shankar is very good, but I don't know if it is as advanced as Sakurai or Ballentine. Is Shankar enough before proceeding to QFT?
 
  • #10
syhpehtam said:
I don't need to read the whole book, I can choose a few chapters on the mathematics which I concern about to read.
I know Shankar is very good, but I don't know if it is as advanced as Sakurai or Ballentine. Is Shankar enough before proceeding to QFT?

It was for me. Although, I did use David Tong's QFT text/manual as a baby step before starting out on Peskin and Schroeder.
 
  • #11
syhpehtam said:
I haven't learned Lie group before. I only know a little elementary knowledge about groups. I think I should learn the mathematics of Lie group or group theory which you mentioned. Can you please recommend some books from which I can learn this kind of mathematics? I've found the book "Lie Algebras in Particle Physics" by Howard Georgi, is this book suitable?
I haven't read Georgi's book, so I can't give an opinion.
But I'm sure this book would be suitable:

Greiner & Muller, "Quantum Mechanics -- Symmetries".
 
  • #12
strangerep said:
I haven't read Georgi's book, so I can't give an opinion.
But I'm sure this book would be suitable:

Greiner & Muller, "Quantum Mechanics -- Symmetries".
Thank you. I'll try the book you recommended.
 

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