What is the Electromagnetic Wave in this Animation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of photons in the context of an animation depicting an accelerated charge generating an electromagnetic wave. Participants explore the distinction between classical electromagnetic waves and the quantum concept of photons, addressing the visualization of these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an animation of an accelerated charge and questions whether a specific perturbation in the animation represents a photon.
  • Another participant asserts that the perturbation is not a photon, emphasizing that a photon cannot be pointed to in the context of the illustration.
  • A further contribution clarifies that a photon exists only at the point of interaction between an electromagnetic wave and an atom, suggesting that electromagnetic waves do not contain photons.
  • Another participant explains that the diagram illustrates classical electromagnetic radiation and that photons are not represented in classical field line diagrams, as photons only manifest upon interaction with matter.
  • It is noted that while electromagnetic radiation is a classical phenomenon, its energy and momentum are delivered in discrete amounts during interactions, which is when a photon is said to be detected.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the perturbation in the animation does not represent a photon, but there is ongoing discussion about the nature of photons and their relationship to electromagnetic waves, indicating that multiple views remain on how to conceptualize these ideas.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of classical visualizations in representing quantum phenomena and the dependence on specific definitions of photons and electromagnetic waves.

marksyncm
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I've found this animation of an accelerated charge creating an electromagnetic wave:

http://www.tapir.caltech.edu/~teviet/Waves/field_a.gif

My question is regarding the perturbation I've encircled in green below:

upload_2018-4-1_13-29-2.png


Is this what we call a photon?
 

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marksyncm said:
Is this what we call a photon?

No.

Zz.
 
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ZapperZ said:
No.

Thank you.

Is it possible for you to point out the "photon" in the context of this illustration of the electromagnetic wave?
 
marksyncm said:
Thank you.

Is it possible for you to point out the "photon" in the context of this illustration of the electromagnetic wave?

A photon is not an “object” that one can point to.

Zz.
 
@marksyncm, to expand a bit on what zz said, a photon exists only a the point of interaction between an electromagnetic wave and an atom. That is, an electromagnetic wave (a "beam" of light for example) does not contain any photons, it's just a wave.
 
marksyncm said:
Is this what we call a photon?
It is not, but you might perhaps be hoping for a more elaborate answer than that. Here's one:

You won't find a photon in any picture that shows electrical field lines, because field lines are a classical way of visualizing electric fields at a macroscopic scale; the diagram you posted shows how accelerating a charged object can generate classical electromagnetic radiation, no photons or other quantum mechanical effects involved.

As @ZapperZ says above, a photon is not an object that you can point at. You might want to try this thread and especially the first two posts for more information, or give Feynman's layman-friendly book "QED: The strange theory of light and matter" a try.

A quick and hand-waving answer is that when electromagnetic radiation (a classical phenomenon) interacts with matter, we observe that the radiation always delivers its energy and momentum in discrete amounts at a single point; when that happens we say "a photon was detected" at that point. However, the photon doesn't exist in any sense that even remotely corresponds to our intuition about the word "particle" unless and until that interaction with matter has happened.
 
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Thank you all, this is now much clearer.
 

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