What is the Notation for Expectation and How Do I Interpret It?

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    Expectation Notation
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation and interpretation of the expectation of a random variable X, specifically focusing on different integral forms and their applicability under various conditions. Participants explore definitions, calculations, and implications of expectation in the context of probability distributions, including singular continuous distributions like the Cantor distribution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to read and interpret two definitions of expectation: E(X) = ∫ x dP and E(X) = ∫ x dF(X), expressing uncertainty about their application to arbitrary random variables.
  • Another participant suggests that the first notation resembles the Lebesgue Integral definition, while the second is more aligned with a standard student definition, providing alternative forms for clarity.
  • A participant proposes an alternative definition involving the derivative of the cumulative distribution function (cdf), noting the assumption that dF/dx exists and questioning its utility in cases of singular continuous distributions.
  • Discussion includes the assertion that E(X) = ∫ x dF(x) is the most general form, applicable even when the cdf is not differentiable.
  • Participants explore the implications of singular continuous distributions on the definition of expectation, questioning whether the concept of expectation value is meaningful without a probability density function.
  • One participant highlights that the Stieltjes integral is valid for any probability distribution, including those that are not differentiable, and discusses its equivalence to other forms under certain conditions.
  • There is a repeated inquiry into the treatment of singularly continuous distributions, with participants noting that while E(X) = ∫ x dF(x) remains meaningful, it may not always be expressible as a standard Riemann integral or sum.
  • A participant introduces the Cantor distribution, referencing its expected value based on symmetry and expressing curiosity about alternative calculation methods for both the expectation and the integral of x^2 under this distribution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the definitions and interpretations of expectation, with no consensus reached on the best approach for singular continuous distributions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these definitions in specific cases, such as the Cantor distribution.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the existence and utility of derivatives of the cumulative distribution function, as well as the challenges in expressing expectations for singular continuous distributions in standard forms.

shoeburg
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How do I read, interpret the following definitions for the expectation of a random variable X?
Assume the integral is over the entire relevant space for X.

(1) E(X) = ∫ x dP
(2) E(X) = ∫ x dF(X)

If I asked you to calculate (1) or (2) for an arbitrary X, how does it look?
My only other understanding of E(X) is to do pdf times x, integrate, plug in bounds, but that's assuming X is nice enough to have such a pdf. I appreciate any replies!
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value
... there are plenty of examples of expectation value calculations online - have you had a look?

Note: none of your notations look right.
The first looks looks like it's trying to be the Lebesgue Integral definition - which is more general, the second looks like it is trying to be the regular student definition while the second

i.e.

1. $$E[X]=\int_{\Omega}XdP$$

2. $$E[X]=\int_{-\infty}^\infty xp(x)dx$$
 
Okay I see. Would this be the other definition:

E(X) = ∫ X dF(X) = ∫ x f(x) dx, where dF(X) = (dF/dx)dx = f(x)dx. But this is assuming dF/dx exists, or perhaps I should say this is assuming dF/dx is useful. What if F is a singular continuous distribution?
 
E(X) = ∫xdF(x) is the most general form. When dF/dx exists, you can use it.
 
What if F is a singular continuous distribution?
i.e. dF/dx does not exist?
Then you cannot use that definition.

Does "expectation value" make sense in the absence of a probability density function?
 
shoeburg said:
(2) E(X) = ∫ x dF(X)
This is a Stieltjes integral. This integral is meaningful for any probability distribution, even when the cdf ##F## is not differentiable.

In the case where ##F## is differentiable and the density function ##p(x) = dF/dx## integrates back to ##F(x)##, it is equivalent to ##E(X) = \int x p(x) dx##.

In the case where ##F## is a "staircase" (the probability is all concentrated at discrete points), it is equivalent to ##E(X) = \sum_n a_n P(X = a_n)##, where ##a_n## are the x-coordinates of the jumps.
 
Last edited:
How about for a d.f. F that is singularly continuous (neither absolutely continuous nor discrete)?
 
shoeburg said:
How about for a d.f. F that is singularly continuous (neither absolutely continuous nor discrete)?
##E(X) = \int x dF(x)## is still meaningful in that case, but it may not be possible to write it in terms of a standard Riemann integral or a sum as in the two cases I noted above. Sometimes it can be written as a Riemann integral plus a sum, however (so called "mixed" continuous/discrete distribution). Do you have a specific distribution in mind?
 
Yes, the Cantor distribution! Funny that you ask, I'm actually trying to work out a few problems based on the Cantor distribution right now. Wikipedia gives the Cantor distribution's expectation as 1/2 based on a symmetry argument. I was wondering if there is any other way to calculate it. I'm curious to know, because I am also asked to find ∫(x^2)dF(X) for the Cantor distribution, and I'm pretty stuck.
 

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