What is the official 2 sided object?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of two-sided geometric shapes, exploring whether such shapes exist within the context of traditional polygons and other geometric figures. Participants consider the properties of various shapes, including circles, lines, and polygons, and engage in philosophical and mathematical reasoning regarding dimensions and sides.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a two-sided shape exists, suggesting that a circle might not fit traditional definitions due to its lack of straight sides.
  • Another participant proposes that a line could be considered to have two straight sides, although it is not a two-dimensional figure.
  • A different viewpoint introduces the idea of graphs with edges and vertices, suggesting that arrangements could yield shapes that might qualify as having two sides, including interpretations of half-circles.
  • Some participants argue against the idea that a circle has one side, claiming it has infinitely many sides based on the limit of regular polygons.
  • Further discussion raises the concept of convex hulls in two and three dimensions, questioning the minimum number of points required for certain geometric properties and the implications of Euler's Formula on polyhedra.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the dimensionality of shapes, with one noting that a dimensionless dot and a zero thickness line cannot exist in a two-dimensional plane.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of a two-sided shape, with multiple competing views presented regarding the properties of circles, lines, and polygons. The discussion remains unresolved, with differing interpretations and definitions of sides and dimensions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the ambiguity in defining "sides" and the dependence on dimensionality in geometric definitions. The discussion also touches on unresolved mathematical concepts such as convex hulls and Euler's Formula, which may influence the understanding of shapes in different dimensions.

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A totally pointless question but it bugs me every time I try and put the round block through the square shaped holes.

A circle has one side, and equalateral triangle has three equal sides, square four, pentagon, hexagon, etc, etc,

Is there a two side shape in that group, or is the circle gate crashing the equal side party as it doesn't have a straight side?

May this should be in the philosophy section?
 
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a line would have two straight sides, I don't know of any other figures that have that property. But then again, a line is not two dimensional.
 
There is always a graph consisting of n edges and n vertices. For n>=3, these can be arranged to look like polygons, and for n=1, like a circle. So however you want to arrange the graph with two edges and two vertices could qualify for what you want. One way would be like the side view of a lemon, another like the perimeter of half a circle. I don't see a natural choice, other than a circle where you arbitrarily define two halves of the curcumference to be different sides, even though there is no "corner" where they meet.
 
actually, the circle does *not* have 1 side. this is just weird mnemonic that kindergarten teachers like to "teach" their students for some reason or another.

if anything it has infinitely many sides, being the limit space of a sequence of regular polygons of increasing number of sides.
 
Doodle Bob said:
actually, the circle does *not* have 1 side. this is just weird mnemonic that kindergarten teachers like to "teach" their students for some reason or another.

if anything it has infinitely many sides, being the limit space of a sequence of regular polygons of increasing number of sides.

That does fit better as then you can have 2D shapes with equal sides numbered 3 to infinity. I assume 1 would be a dimensionless dot, and 2 would be a zero thickness line but they can't exist on a two dimensional plane.

Can you do the same thing with 3D objects, three sided pyramid (can't remember it's name) cube, do pentagons teselate, etc, etc, until you get to sphere made up of an infinitite number of infinite equal sided faces?
 
Panda said:
That does fit better as then you can have 2D shapes with equal sides numbered 3 to infinity. I assume 1 would be a dimensionless dot, and 2 would be a zero thickness line but they can't exist on a two dimensional plane.

this is an excellent example as to why mathematics is written the way it usually is. we want to be specific and accurate at the same time. to accomplish this, you might want to rephrase this whole inquiry as such:

given a finitely many set of points on the plane, what is the convex hull of those points? Is it possible for the boundary of the convex hull of these points to consist of two distinct line segments? If the convex hull has a nonzero area, what is the minimal possible number of points in the original set of points?

(if you don't know what "convex hull" means, look it up on wikipedia)

Panda said:
Can you do the same thing with 3D objects, three sided pyramid (can't remember it's name) cube, do pentagons teselate, etc, etc, until you get to sphere made up of an infinitite number of infinite equal sided faces?

In 3-space, we run into similar interesting questions. The tetrahedron has 4 sides, actually, not three. In fact, that's a good question: how many sides are possible for the boundary of the convex hull of finitiely many points in 3-space? (incidentally, Euler's Formula comes gliding into the room at this point of the inquiry, looking not a little like Veronica Lake)
 
Well I've spent an hour rearranging Euler's Formula and I can't get it looking like Veronica Lake... but as I'm meant to be looking after baby panda I suppose I'll have to go back to showing how to get the triangular block through the round hole... I'll spend more time looking at the Veronica Lake problem after Mrs Panda has gone to bed though...
 
Panda said:
Well I've spent an hour rearranging Euler's Formula and I can't get it looking like Veronica Lake... but as I'm meant to be looking after baby panda I suppose I'll have to go back to showing how to get the triangular block through the round hole... I'll spend more time looking at the Veronica Lake problem after Mrs Panda has gone to bed though...

Oh, wait, I meant Kim Basinger...

Anyway, that cryptic remark refers to the fact that Euler's Formula actually helps limit the number of faces, edges and vertices possible on a convex polyhedron (of finite area) in 3-space. For example, what happens if you try to plug V=3 into Euler's Pulchritudinous Formula? Or E=7?
 

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