What is the physical definition of a state in quantum mechanics?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter lightarrow
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Definition Qm State
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the physical definition of a "state" in quantum mechanics, exploring both mathematical and operational perspectives. Participants engage with the implications of different interpretations and the challenges in defining states within quantum systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that mathematically, a state in quantum mechanics is represented as a ray in Hilbert space but questions how to define "state" from a physical perspective.
  • Another participant suggests that the reality of a state in quantum mechanics is uncertain, proposing that it can be treated as a tool for calculating probabilities of measurement outcomes.
  • Some participants argue that a pure quantum state is viewed as a complete description of a quantum system according to the Copenhagen interpretation, while also acknowledging that this view aligns with an ensemble perspective due to its probabilistic nature.
  • An operational definition is presented where the state is described as a function that provides expectation values for observables, although this does not clarify the physical nature of the state.
  • Concerns are raised about the non-uniqueness of the function defining the state and the implications of this for understanding quantum systems.
  • Questions are posed regarding the identification of information about a system after interactions, particularly whether a state changes when a photon passes through a transparent crystal.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the quantum mechanical framework consists of abstract concepts that require specific forms to be meaningful, drawing parallels to classical physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of states in quantum mechanics, with no consensus on a singular definition or understanding. The discussion reflects multiple competing interpretations and uncertainties regarding the physical reality of states.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in defining states, including the dependence on interpretations, the ambiguity of operational definitions, and the challenges in identifying changes in states post-interaction.

lightarrow
Messages
1,966
Reaction score
64
Mathematically, a state in QM is a ray on the Hilbert space. But:
1) How would you define "state" from a physical point of view? I know a lot of examples but not a general definition.
2) Given a specific quantum system, to find all the states and so the Hilbert space, all I have to do is to solve the Schrödinger equation (when this is possible)?

--
lightarrow
 
Physics news on Phys.org
We don't know whether a state is real in quantum mechanics. However, even if we take an operational view of the state, we can pretend that it is real. So reality is just a tool to calculate the probabilities of measurement outcomes.

However, given a choice of observables, commutation relations and Hilbert space, a traditional Copenhagen interpretation is it that a pure quantum state is the complete description of a single quantum system. Although this is sometimes contrasted with an ensemble view, the traditional view is also an ensemble view, because it assumes that the state only permits probabilistic predictions via the Born rule. This is why the traditional view is also called the Statistical Interpretation.
 
Last edited:
An operational definition of "state" in QM is that the state is a function which, given any observable, returns the expectation value for that observable. So it's just a way of computing statistical predictions for outcomes of future observations. That doesn't give much insight into what's going on, physically, but there isn't a good consensus about that, anyway.
 
stevendaryl said:
An operational definition of "state" in QM is that the state is a function which, given any observable, returns the expectation value for that observable.
With this definition, the function defining the state isn't unique, is it?

--
lightarrow
 
atyy said:
We don't know whether a state is real in quantum mechanics. However, even if we take an operational view of the state, we can pretend that it is real. So reality is just a tool to calculate the probabilities of measurement outcomes.
However, given a choice of observables, commutation relations and Hilbert space, a traditional Copenhagen interpretation is it that a pure quantum state is the complete description of a single quantum system. Although this is sometimes contrasted with an ensemble view, the traditional view is also an ensemble view, because it assumes that the state only permits probabilistic predictions via the Born rule. This is why the traditional view is also called the Statistical Interpretation.
So it's not always easy to identify which are all the possible informations about the system, especially after it has interacted with something? E.g., how can I know if the state has changed or not? if a light photon goes through a transparent crystal, does its state change?

--
lightarrow
 
lightarrow said:
So it's not always easy to identify which are all the possible informations about the system, especially after it has interacted with something? E.g., how can I know if the state has changed or not? if a light photon goes through a transparent crystal, does its state change?

Generally, the quantum mechanical framework involves observables, states, Hamiltonians etc, which is an empty outline that must be filled in with specifics. If the physicist believes this outline is true, then his job is to figure out the specific forms to fill in these empty outlines in a way that is consistent across all his experiments.

It is not different from classical physics and F = ma, which is just a meaningless outline unless we give specific forms for F, eg: F = Gmm/r2 for gravitation.

Similarly, how the state of a photon is changed by going through a transparent crystal may be specified by putting a term in the Hamiltonian that specifically describes the interaction between the photon and the crystal (that's overkill sometimes, but it's more or less right).
 
Thanks to both of you.

--
lightarrow.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K