What is the ratio of hydrogen to helium in the Sun?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the ratio of hydrogen to helium in the Sun, specifically addressing how to calculate this ratio based on different approaches and the implications of solar composition over time. The scope includes theoretical considerations and potential calculations related to solar physics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose two methods for calculating the hydrogen to helium ratio: one based on counting atoms participating in the solar proton-proton (pp) chain, and another using mass fractions X=0.71 for hydrogen and Y=0.26 for helium.
  • Another participant suggests that to find the atomic proportions, one must divide the mass fractions by their relative masses, which are approximately 1:4, leading to different atomic ratios.
  • One participant notes that the 26% helium by weight reflects the Sun's composition at formation, but the current interior composition is likely over 60% helium due to hydrogen fusion over 4.5 billion years.
  • This participant emphasizes the need to integrate over the entire volume of the Sun to accurately calculate the atomic ratio, indicating uncertainty about the exact current ratio.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate method for calculating the hydrogen to helium ratio, and there is no consensus on the current composition of the Sun or the correct approach to the calculation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of considering the Sun's evolution over time, which affects the helium content, and the need for integration over the Sun's volume for accurate calculations. There are also unresolved mathematical steps regarding the conversion of mass fractions to atomic ratios.

shirin
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Hi everyone,
There is problem that asks how many hydrogen atoms are there in sun for each helium atom.
I don't know which solution is correct:
1) to count all the hydrogens and heliums participating in one solar pp chain,
or,
2) as X=0.71 and Y=0.26, there is (0.71/0.26)*2 H for each He.
Thanks for help.
 
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shirin said:
Hi everyone,
There is problem that asks how many hydrogen atoms are there in sun for each helium atom.
I don't know which solution is correct:
1) to count all the hydrogens and heliums participating in one solar pp chain,
or,
2) as X=0.71 and Y=0.26, there is (0.71/0.26)*2 H for each He.
Thanks for help.

The figures X & Y are mass fractions. In terms of numbers of atoms of each we need to divide by their relative masses, roughly 1:4, giving us 0.71 and 0.052, then divide those by the sum I.e. 0.71/0.762 & 0.052/0.762 which gives their atomic proportions. Divide the hydrogen figure by the helium figure and you have how many hydrogens for every helium.
 
thank you.
 
The 26% He by weight is more representative of the composition of the sun at the time of formation. The sun has been burning H to He for 4.5 billion years, so according to the standard solar model, the interior of the sun is now over 60% He. To calculate the atomic ratio, you would need to integrate over the whole volume - I don't know the answer, but I'm sure it is more than 26% He by weight when averaged over the whole sun. Here are a couple of references with Figure 2 in the first reference showing the mass fraction as a function of radius, and Table 1 in the second reference giving the He mass fraction in the core at >60%.

http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~france/PAPERS/solmodel.pdf

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0204331
 
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