What is the true nature of an object: beyond its properties?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the nature of objects and their properties, questioning whether objects exist independently of their properties or if they are merely a collection of properties. Participants delve into philosophical implications, the relationship between objects and properties, and the potential need for a more sophisticated understanding of existence.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Philosophical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that objects may be reduced to a set of properties, questioning the existence of anything beyond these properties.
  • Others argue that an object must be something more than just properties, suggesting concepts like substance or actualization as potential explanations.
  • A participant challenges the coherence of discussing an object independent of its properties, likening it to a word without definition.
  • There is a suggestion that the concept of objects may be incoherent, with calls for a more sophisticated theory of matter and existence.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the existence of a base substance that is identical with itself while its properties change, emphasizing constant flux in nature.
  • One participant likens the relationship between objects and properties to the layers of an onion, suggesting they exist together rather than separately.
  • Another participant questions the empirical evidence for the existence of properties, suggesting that the concept of an object is primitive.
  • There is a discussion about intrinsic versus relational properties in defining objects.
  • Some participants express confusion over contradictions in the arguments presented, particularly regarding the relationship between objects and their properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, with multiple competing views on the nature of objects and properties remaining unresolved. Disagreements exist regarding the coherence of discussing objects independent of their properties and the implications of this for physical theories.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of empirical evidence for the existence of properties or a base substance, and the discussion reflects various philosophical perspectives without resolving the underlying questions.

  • #31
nameless said:
From the micro to the macro, there has long been evidence, even empirically quantifiably and qualitatively in any well equipt lab. Superlocation.

Got any hard evidence for this claim?
 
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  • #32
Originally Posted by nameless
From the micro to the macro, there has long been evidence, even empirically quantifiably and qualitatively in any well equipt lab. Superlocation.
selfAdjoint said:
Got any hard evidence for this claim?
Is this a trick question?
If you are really interested, perhaps you'll Google 'bilocation' for some 'introductory information. On the 'micro-level', in the lab, you'll find the 'hardest' (what I think that you mean by 'hard'. Some people mean 'hard' to indicate 'hard' for them to 'accept', as a challenge...') evidence there. But you will find a whole netful of other 'types of evidence', such as anecdotal. I realize that 'anecdotal evidence' is rather 'anathema' to certain types of minds. That does not mean that there is not some validity somewhere. If you do an honest search, really read the relevant info. and try to understand, you'll have no problem, I guess...

In the end, we seem to still 'believe' what we must.
 

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