What Is Wavelength in Sound and EM Waves?

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    Mean Wavelength
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of wavelength in sound and electromagnetic (EM) waves, exploring its physical meaning, relationship to color, and implications for energy and temperature. Participants engage in clarifying definitions and exploring the connections between wavelength, color perception, and energy levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that wavelength refers to the distance over which a wave's shape repeats, particularly in the context of EM waves.
  • Others argue that wavelength is not related to the size of a photon but is inversely proportional to a photon's momentum and energy.
  • There is a discussion on how wavelength correlates with color perception, with references to the visible spectrum and the energy associated with different colors.
  • Some participants assert that red light has more energy and momentum than blue light, while others challenge this by stating that blue light is more energetic and thus hotter.
  • One participant mentions the relationship between flame color and temperature, questioning why an alcohol flame appears cooler than a red flame from burning wood despite the color associations.
  • There are references to biophysics and neurology regarding how different wavelengths are perceived as different colors, suggesting a need for further exploration in a biology context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express conflicting views regarding the relationship between color, energy, and temperature of light. While some agree on the general principles of wavelength and energy, there is no consensus on the specific claims about red and blue light's energy and temperature implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various aspects of light and color perception, but the discussion lacks a detailed exploration of the underlying mechanisms of color perception and the specific conditions affecting flame temperatures.

MiniSmSm
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hi everybody

In sound waves or EM waves ..
What do we mean by saying 'wavelength' ! physically
I mean ,
Is that related to the size of the photon for example ( In EM ) ?
Help me to understand
 
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Hi MiniSmSm! :smile:

Light is an EM wave, a disturbance in an EM field.

The wavelength is the distance that it takes for the disturbance to repeat itself.

It's not related to the size of a photon (whatever that is :confused:), but it is inversely proportional to the momentum of a photon (and to the energy).
 
:) Thanx tiny-tim I appreciate that ..
but how could we say that is related to the color of wave ?
please explain..
 
Do you mean visible color? Essentially your eyes takes in the light (and the wavelength associated to the light) and your brain interprets the wave as a color.

The typical human eye can see light that is between the wavelengths of 400nanometers to 700 nanometers. 400nm is roughly violet and 700 roughly being red. The colors in between are roughly the colors of a rainbow in 50nm intervals. So something like:

Violet 400-450nm
Blue 450-500nm
Green 500-550nm
Yellow 550-600nm
Orange 600-650nm
Red 650-700nm

Right below violet in the light spectrum is ultraviolet (which we can't see with the naked eye). Right above red is infared (which we also can't see with the naked eye).

A shorter wavelength means a larger energy as tiny-tim touched upon. So violet is the most energetic color that is visible to us naturally, while red is the least energetic.
 
Red light is hotter (it has more energy, and more momentum) than blue light.

Colour depends on frequency (1/wavelength), which is proportional to both momentum and energy. :smile:
 
tiny-tim said:
Red light is hotter (it has more energy, and more momentum) than blue light.

Colour depends on frequency (1/wavelength), which is proportional to both momentum and energy. :smile:

Not sure about your first point but the energy of light is inversely proportional to its wave length. Or, in other words a smaller wavelength means that the light is more energetic.

As far as heat goes. Red is the coolest you can heat an object and visibly see it. This is why you know a fire is really hot if it's got a hint of blue/violet to it.
 
tiny-tim said:
Red light is hotter (it has more energy, and more momentum) than blue light.


Red Light is hotter ! or blue light is hotter than red ?
blue light has more energy than red light
so how can red light be hotter than blue ?
 
oops! :redface: wrong way round!
 
Things that glow red are colder than things that glow blue.

Temperature and energy are directly related so something that is more energetic (blue light) is hotter.

Blue light - hotter and more energetic
Red light - cooler and less energetic
 
  • #10
ThanX for clarification :)
 
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  • #11
MiniSmSm said:
:) Thanx tiny-tim I appreciate that ..
but how could we say that is related to the color of wave ?
please explain..
The basic way to correlate color and wavelength is to use a ruled reflection (diffraction) grating, and measure the diffraction angle, hence wavelength, for each color. See
http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productID=1896
Bob S
 
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  • #12
MiniSmSm said:
but how could we say that is related to the color of wave?

If you mean, "what is the mechanism by which we perceive different wavelengths as having different colors?" that is a matter of biophysics (how the receptor cells in the eye respond to different wavelengths) and neurology (how the brain processes the information that it receives from the eye). You'd probably better ask about that in a biology forum, maybe even the one here on PF.
 
  • #13
Feldoh said:
Things that glow red are colder than things that glow blue.

Temperature and energy are directly related so something that is more energetic (blue light) is hotter.

Blue light - hotter and more energetic
Red light - cooler and less energetic
ok I know that blue light has more energy then red . I believe you . but why is an alcohol flame that is blue colder than a red flame made form a fire with pine wood.
 
  • #14
Why do you think an alcohol flame is colder?
 
  • #15
because the chemical reaction produces less heat . i can't really take it any deeper than that
 
  • #16
cragar said:
because the chemical reaction produces less heat . i can't really take it any deeper than that
That would appear http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#As_a_fuel". Look at where wood is on the chart.

In fact, I wonder if that's related to the fact that there are lots of alcohol-burning vehicles there are out there, but not so much wood-burning vehicles...
 
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  • #17
ok I see , but there was another thread about the color of flames and there energy that addressed this question , because gasoline burns red orange and it burns hotter than alcohol .
 
  • #18
jtbell said:
If you mean, "what is the mechanism by which we perceive different wavelengths as having different colors?" that is a matter of biophysics (how the receptor cells in the eye respond to different wavelengths) and neurology (how the brain processes the information that it receives from the eye). You'd probably better ask about that in a biology forum, maybe even the one here on PF.

well , thanks ..
that`s really what I meant
 

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