What parts of the car are responsible for the greatest amounts of energy loss?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the various components of a car that contribute to energy loss, particularly in relation to the efficiency of internal combustion engines. Participants explore the sources of energy loss, including heat, friction, and other mechanical inefficiencies, as well as the impact of external factors like aerodynamic drag and tire pressure.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that significant energy losses occur during the combustion process, including heat, noise, and unburnt fuel.
  • Others mention losses in various mechanical components such as the gear train, drive shaft connections, axle shafts, and at the wheels.
  • A participant suggests that approximately one third of the fuel's energy is lost out the tailpipe, another third as heat from the radiator, and a third of the remaining energy is lost in the transmission, though this is described as variable.
  • There is a claim that aerodynamic drag is a major source of energy loss, particularly dependent on speed.
  • One participant asserts that nearly all remaining energy is lost to friction, both internal and external.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that under-inflated tires increase rolling resistance, contributing to energy loss and fuel consumption.
  • Concerns are raised about the use of approximate numbers in energy loss calculations, with a suggestion for more precise data from engineering sources.
  • A participant recalls that only about 16-18% of the potential energy in fuel is converted into kinetic energy for propulsion, with the rest lost to various forms of heat and friction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the sources and significance of energy loss in cars, with no clear consensus on specific percentages or the most critical factors. Multiple competing perspectives remain regarding the impact of different components and conditions on energy efficiency.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on approximations and generalizations that may not account for specific conditions or definitions, leading to potential inaccuracies in the discussion of energy loss percentages.

pa5tabear
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I know air conditioners use a significant amount of energy, but turning the fan on high uses a fairly negligible amount. This started me thinking about the engine of the car.

Where do most of the losses occur? I know any time you have an energy conversion or transfer, you will be losing some energy. Which of these are most significant? For example, is it heat loss in the combustion? Friction on the road? Internal friction?

I don't know much about how engines work, but am curious to understand the energy involved.
 
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Losses in combustion process (heat, noise, unburnt fuel), losses in gear train, losses in drive shaft connections, losses in axle shafts/differentials, losses at the wheels.

There are losses due to the power steering, the cooling, charging the battery, and on and on and on.
 
If you are referring to the energy of the fuel, a good rule of thumb to get you started is that a third goes out the tailpipe and a third goes out the radiator/engine case. Of the third that is turned into mechanical work, a third of that is lost in your transmission. Where it goes after that is highly variable.
 
Last edited:
russ_watters said:
If you are referring to the energy of the fuel, a good rule of thumb to get you started is that a third goes out the tailpipe and a third goes out the radiator/engine case. Of the third that is turned into mechanical work, a third of that is lost in your transmission. Where it goes after that is highly variable.

Yes, this is exactly what I was wondering about. Thanks!

It sounds like the third that goes out your tailpipe would be in the form of heat and unburned fuel.

The third that goes out the radiator/engine case would be purely heat?

Then one ninth is lost to friction in the transmission? Is this the same for manual vs. automatic?

So that leaves two ninths of the total energy in the fuel to do be converted into kinetic energy of the car. I assume much of this amount is still lost due to friction?
 
You cannot use approximate numbers to add up like that. I have a engineering book from back when they actually taught such things in practical language. I could look up a listing that does give add-up percentages if I had a good reason.

Where exactly are you going with this so someone might be motivated to give you a more detailed answer. There's also TONS of such information all over the Internet on this subject.
 
The greatest amount of "loss" would be aerodynamic drag...but that depends entirely on the speed.
 
pa5tabear said:
So that leaves two ninths of the total energy in the fuel to do be converted into kinetic energy of the car. I assume much of this amount is still lost due to friction?

Practically ALL of it is lost to friction, whether internal or external.
 
99% of it is converted to lard in the passenger cell.
 
Under-inflated tires increase rolling resistance, which results in energy-loss and increased fuel consumption. Just tossing that into the mix.
 
  • #10
I remember reading a few years ago that of the potential energy contained in the fuel, only about 16-18% is converted into the kinetic energy to actually propel a car. The rest is either left un-combusted going directly out the tailpipe, or is converted to heat and expelled/radiated from the engine. Some part of that potential energy was lost to mechanical friction from any of thousands of moving parts (in turn becoming just heat) in the engine, transmission, drivetrain, tires on the road, etc.

And I think kinetic energy lost to things like wind friction were not part of the energy considered "lost" because it was first made kinetic and then lost again. So the overall efficiency of the internal combustion engine is pretty dismal. Factor in the energy expended to get that from the ground and into the car in the first place and it's even worse, but now I'm up on a soapbox.
 

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