What proportion of physicists are autistic?

[MarneMath]

I just wondered. I'm applying to study physics at university next year and I was speaking to someone who has just started her PhD. I asked if it would matter at all that I have Asperger's (I have a couple of issue in certain situations but I'm pretty socially functional) and she sad that I wouldn't be in much of a minority at all, a great many physicists have High Functioning Autism Spectrum Disorders.

It kind of made sense to me, seeing as a lot of physics is a massive amount of dedication to the level obsession, and physicists are known for often being a little socially unusual or eccentric, and these are all common autistic traits, plus many autistic people have a good natural aptitude for maths.

So it just made me wonder, if you work or study in physics, to your knowledge is there a higher proportion of autistic people in physics (and I suppose maths too) than in the general population?

I would be careful to say a lot of austitic have a natural aptitude for mathematics. I'm an aspie, and it annoyed me when people would say, "oh it makes sense, you guys are always good at math." I did some research a while (years ago) and I wish I kep the paper, but from what I recall, on the whole, aspies have typical math abilities and tend to test worse than the average population. Some are granted exceptional gifts, but I wouldn't call it many.

However, the sciences are appealing to people who are socially less inclined. Any work that requires more alone time than social time would be appealing though. I know it was for me, because after years as a child not making friends or being thought of odd, I got kind of tired of it and just began to study math because I could do it alone.

Nevertheless, it's important to realize as an aspie that you have to work to overcome your lack of social understanding to be successful in anything you do. The fellow aspies I have met in physics and math that were successful knew this and worked hard to overcome their difficulties and network and make friends.

So in short, there might be more aspies in in physics than say as a lawyer, but a I also believe a lot of eccentricness or weirdness you see in those departments is not due to a high number of us just hanging out, but rather, kids who just happen to be socially awkward for one reason or another being viewed by kids who are not as socially awkward.

Anyway, if you're ever interested in talking to more aspies http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums.html a good little subculture exist there.

 

[arildno]

I believe all people have a natural need to feel recognized. Those who happen, for one reason or other, to be somewhat socially awkward propel themselves, perhaps, into areas where they feel more certain they will gain recognition?

 

[lisab]

@lisab; how do you talk with people that have different interests than you? I am 18, I have no twitter or facebook account. When I am on youtube I am mostly watching either introduction videos on how to build things or cook, some scientific sensationalist videos, and political videos, otherwise, I am not on youtube. In terms of books, I don't read any science-fiction, rather philosophical and scientific-centered literature, whether it'd be ideas or how a theory came into light. In terms of music, the closest pop is massive attack or portishead, but mostly ambient and certain periods in classical. Other interests are in novice star gazing, lone-adventuring through the woods near my home and trying to gain better survival skills, or simply just people watching.

People who have the same major as I do are more social in terms of being active in social media. I don't like it (except for this website) and believe it is useless, but they are on it all the time. The only thing close to that would be messaging for projects or emailing occasionally.

I can talk to older people much better than my age group, but I do certainly try by reading up on certain topical conversations I hear, but I end up coming off as unauthentic (I can see it in the eyes of people). I almost sound like I am acting when I try talking about the latest "happening" going on. Like I rehearsed the lines but cannot remember them. It's more embarrassing than beneficial.

Every-time I begin a conversation because I want to be social, I am the one having to hold up the conversation. I honestly hate doing that, why can the person I am talking with try to help out? Why must I be the one to initiate and sustain it? Then when they stop talking and keep sitting there, I have to think of another conversation that would take longer. I find it rather hard talking with people in my age group because I believe they don't know what to say and I end up becoming offended and just getting away from them.

But even if I do have a "seemingly" good conversation with people, when I see them walking they just stare at me as if they want me to be the first one to say high.

If anyone is weird it's them. I am not weird or autistic. I hate these labels. They just reinforce into the minds of other people like the examples above, that people like me must have some psychological issue when really, I believe they have psychological issues that need dealing with.

/rant

I'm a scientist, a woman, an atheist, I don't watch TV (hate it, in fact). I despise celebrity culture and I have a hard time hiding it. I don't wear make-up and I have no interest in fashion or the latest hair styles.

Any one of those things would brand me as "weird", so to have all of them...yeah, I'm aware most people I meet think I'm strange.

How do I interact with new people? It's tough sometimes. I can't be inauthentic, so in large part it depends on the open-mindedness of the person I'm meeting.

 

[arildno]

I don't wear make-up and I have no interest in fashion or the latest hair styles.

What about new beard styles flowing out from The Hobbit? Are they okay?

 

[Andre]

What about new beard styles flowing out from The Hobbit? Are they okay?

Let me predict it's not okay

 

[Evo]

What about new beard styles flowing out from The Hobbit? Are they okay?

Toe hair.

 

[arildno]

Toe hair.

Toe hairy, they too?
I never scrutinized my dwarves' toes properly..

 

[Andre]

Toe hairy, they too?
I never scrutinized my dwarves' toes properly..

About this particular anatomy of hobbits, please take note of this

http://once-upon-a-hobbit.blogspot.nl/2009/06/funny-hobbit-toes.html

Amazing how incredibly off topic we got here. So let me assure Mentalist, Arild from No and Lisa with a B that I don't see any weirdness. Maybe just the lack of herd instinct.

 

[Len M]

It was speculated that Paul Dirac was autistic in "The Strangest Man" a biography of Dirac by Graham Farmelo. A review is here:
http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/dr-strange

On a side note, I read a piece from the Observer some years ago on Dirac when it was claimed that he was unaware that the second world war was being fought whilst he was at Cambridge! I was staggered at the time I read this, but have never seen any repeat of that claim, so it may be pure fiction.

A short extract from the review:

At the close of the book, Farmelo attempts to synthesize all of the disparate parts into a coherent whole, to provide a single explanation for both the astonishing scientific creativity and the general wackiness of Paul Dirac. The explanation comes a bit abruptly: Farmelo believes that Dirac was autistic. Properly, Farmelo advises caution in making historical diagnoses, because “rather too often, people are labelled autistic on the flimsiest of evidence except that they are exceptionally reserved, focused and unsociable.” And, yet, this is precisely the kind of evidence we are offered: the Dirac stories, the fact that (according to Simon Baron-Cohen, whom Farmelo interviewed) autistic men often marry foreign women (as did Dirac), and a few other supposed correlations. There is no question Dirac was a strange man. He might even have been autistic. But there is simply not enough to go on to risk staking such a strong claim at the end of an otherwise lovely and charming book.