What to Do if You Encounter a Possible Psychopath? Report?

[kyphysics]

So, I had a horrific customer service experience today with someone in my doctor's office. She is the scheduler/assistant/receptionist for this doctor. I have seen them for 7-8 months for a specialty concern and the doctor is totally normal, while the scheduler/assistant/receptionst (s/a/r hereafter) has shown some "highs" and "lows" of professional courtesy and deportment - the "lows" being instances in which she seemed to violate common sense and reasonable social and professional etiquette (although, not in an overly egregious manner).

However, after today's visit, she seemed to let her full-blown crazy, manipulative, and possible psychopathic side out. I had questioned my impressions of her in the past, but always blew it off as me being too sensitive or possibly misreading things and so I never actually said anything to her, nor made an issue of it to the doctor. The issues were minor and could be chalked up to some possible rudeness (never a good thing, but I didn't want to possibly overreact, nor take a lot of personal time off to confront her about it) or "weirdness" in her personality (like she's very controlling and imposing and talks over you forcefully frequently). Although, I always sensed she had some issues. I just never had strong, clear, and unequivocal evidence.

Anyhow, today her crazy side came out after a complicated issue we discussed. I won't go into detail, as it's a long story and there are some personal privacy concerns (although, I wouldn't mind discussing them over PM with any poster I may have a history of good interactions with here, as I would be trusting in that situation, while also able to keep some things private). However, if it can be taken as fact for the sake of this thread that the s/a/r said some things (tone and content) that crossed over into out-of-control, psychopath territory (I spent hours afterwards dissecting it all and trying to give her every benefit of the doubt and still came to the conclusion that NO WAY this was okay and reasonable), then my question is how you would handle such a situation?

I have some concerns:

1.) This person seems highly likely crazy and/or a psychopath and someone who may act out (possibly in a violent or other harmful way) in retaliation against me if I report her. It's hard to describe why I'd be scared, but you have to be there to feel it. I'm a male and she's a woman, but the way she is really does scare me, because she seems to violate boundaries in a highly controlling, non-remorseful, and manipulative way. She obviously has all my personal information. Although, I've completed treatment and won't need to see her, nor the doctor again after today.

The point, though, is that I have some legitimate concerns about her possibly acting out against me.

2.) Our interaction was not captured in an audio-video format that could serve as proof. Thus, it'd be a he said, she said situation, barring some possible third party witness (very doubtful and hard for me to know anyways). Our interaction was 10% in person and 90% over the phone today. Most of the crazy stuff happened by phone.

3.) She is a "gatekeeper" to the doctor, so if I wanted to send a "complaint" letter to him, she'd likely read his mail first, as she is his primary personal/professional assistant of a very small business practice.

So, assuming a situation where someone acted out in a very unprofessional (manipulative/possibly lying to cover something up, controlling, and rude) and discourteous way, how do you all typically handle something like this? Do you confront the person one-on-one? Do you confront them AND tell management? Do you only tell management? Do you ignore it? ...possibly something else?

Also, do you just state the facts in a non-subjective way? Or, would you give some subjective (assuming you openly state it as your opinion here) thoughts too? I personally think this person is a psychopath. Honestly and seriously. I've listened to corporate bullying lectures and lectures on psychopathy from TEDx speakers before and she has a lot of the characteristics:

-no remorse
-no sense of empathy (ability to feel and care about others feelings)
-manipulative
-self-centered
-controlling

I've had similar instances of discussing a possible administrative mistake on the part of a doctor's office staff before (with a totally different person/provider) and even though there was some disagreement and arguing back and forth initially, we came to a pleasant conclusion and resolution to things. In fact, we both apologized to each other for some misunderstanding and things getting a bit heated. But, both sides were professional and mature in letting logic dictate the truth of things and allowing our better sides to cool down and show empathy and understanding for each other. We not only ended amicably, but have been super friendly to each other since. It was a very similar situation actually in terms of the substantive issue at hand, but the interpersonal side of things went much more professionally. I felt I was dealing with a rational, normal human being.

With the s/a/r, I did not feel this was a normal, rational person, but rather someone who was cold and honestly psychopathic (or, at minimum, has some serious mental issues). It's hard to describe, but sometimes you just feel like there's something wrong with a person.

My question is how best can a person deal with a situation like this?

4.) A fourth concern is how soon should a "complaint" letter be submitted if I do send one? One or two days? A week? (I'm pretty busy this week, but have all weekend off.)

Just getting an outside view would be great. Thanks for any thoughts.

edited to add: This may sound weird on my part, but I even considered telling the s/a/r that I was personally hurt and upset by how things went down during our interaction and was planning to send a complaint letter to the doctor/management about things, but wanted to give her a chance to explain herself if she would like prior to me possibly submitting an official complaint. That was in case I was "missing something" and/or she wanted to apologize to me - in which case, I may consider just leaving it alone and being satisfied that it was resolved on a personal level (I'd even be willing to tell her this...meaning I'd be willing to not submit a complaint if she could satisfactorily resolve things with me personally ...what do you all think?). For me, if she could explain her actions and show that she had an understanding of why they were wrong and show true remorse, then I would be willing to forgive. I'd probably let her know that I thought she should probably consider getting help with handling her thoughts and feelings and take time out to think about this situation and she could learn from it...For me, really, I just want her to understand what she did wrong, apologize, and move forward in a positive way to avoid such behavior in the future. I get know gratification in her possibly being punished at work, losing her job, etc. It's more about fixing an interpersonal wrong. It's cliche, but in many ways I just want an apology (a true one).

 

[Bystander]

a he said, she said situation,

 

[EnglandSP]

So, I had a horrific customer service experience today with someone in my doctor's office. She is the scheduler/assistant/receptionist for this doctor. I have seen them for 7-8 months for a specialty concern and the doctor is totally normal, while the scheduler/assistant/receptionst (s/a/r hereafter) has shown some "highs" and "lows" of professional courtesy and deportment - the "lows" being instances in which she seemed to violate common sense and reasonable social and professional etiquette (although, not in an overly egregious manner).

However, after today's visit, she seemed to let her full-blown crazy, manipulative, and possible psychopathic side out. I had questioned my impressions of her in the past, but always blew it off as me being too sensitive or possibly misreading things and so I never actually said anything to her, nor made an issue of it to the doctor. The issues were minor and could be chalked up to some possible rudeness (never a good thing, but I didn't want to possibly overreact, nor take a lot of personal time off to confront her about it) or "weirdness" in her personality (like she's very controlling and imposing and talks over you forcefully frequently). Although, I always sensed she had some issues. I just never had strong, clear, and unequivocal evidence.

Anyhow, today her crazy side came out after a complicated issue we discussed. I won't go into detail, as it's a long story and there are some personal privacy concerns (although, I wouldn't mind discussing them over PM with any poster I may have a history of good interactions with here, as I would be trusting in that situation, while also able to keep some things private). However, if it can be taken as fact for the sake of this thread that the s/a/r said some things (tone and content) that crossed over into out-of-control, psychopath territory (I spent hours afterwards dissecting it all and trying to give her every benefit of the doubt and still came to the conclusion that NO WAY this was okay and reasonable), then my question is how you would handle such a situation?

I have some concerns:

1.) This person seems highly likely crazy and/or a psychopath and someone who may act out (possibly in a violent or other harmful way) in retaliation against me if I report her. It's hard to describe why I'd be scared, but you have to be there to feel it. I'm a male and she's a woman, but the way she is really does scare me, because she seems to violate boundaries in a highly controlling, non-remorseful, and manipulative way. She obviously has all my personal information. Although, I've completed treatment and won't need to see her, nor the doctor again after today.

The point, though, is that I have some legitimate concerns about her possibly acting out against me.

2.) Our interaction was not captured in an audio-video format that could serve as proof. Thus, it'd be a he said, she said situation, barring some possible third party witness (very doubtful and hard for me to know anyways). Our interaction was 10% in person and 90% over the phone today. Most of the crazy stuff happened by phone.

3.) She is a "gatekeeper" to the doctor, so if I wanted to send a "complaint" letter to him, she'd likely read his mail first, as she is his primary personal/professional assistant of a very small business practice.

So, assuming a situation where someone acted out in a very unprofessional (manipulative/possibly lying to cover something up, controlling, and rude) and discourteous way, how do you all typically handle something like this? Do you confront the person one-on-one? Do you confront them AND tell management? Do you only tell management? Do you ignore it? ...possibly something else?

Also, do you just state the facts in a non-subjective way? Or, would you give some subjective (assuming you openly state it as your opinion here) thoughts too? I personally think this person is a psychopath. Honestly and seriously. I've listened to corporate bullying lectures and lectures on psychopathy from TEDx speakers before and she has a lot of the characteristics:

-no remorse
-no sense of empathy (ability to feel and care about others feelings)
-manipulative
-self-centered
-controlling

I've had similar instances of discussing a possible administrative mistake on the part of a doctor's office staff before (with a totally different person/provider) and even though there was some disagreement and arguing back and forth initially, we came to a pleasant conclusion and resolution to things. In fact, we both apologized to each other for some misunderstanding and things getting a bit heated. But, both sides were professional and mature in letting logic dictate the truth of things and allowing our better sides to cool down and show empathy and understanding for each other. We not only ended amicably, but have been super friendly to each other since. It was a very similar situation actually in terms of the substantive issue at hand, but the interpersonal side of things went much more professionally. I felt I was dealing with a rational, normal human being.

With the s/a/r, I did not feel this was a normal, rational person, but rather someone who was cold and honestly psychopathic (or, at minimum, has some serious mental issues). It's hard to describe, but sometimes you just feel like there's something wrong with a person.

My question is how best can a person deal with a situation like this?

4.) A fourth concern is how soon should a "complaint" letter be submitted if I do send one? One or two days? A week? (I'm pretty busy this week, but have all weekend off.)

Just getting an outside view would be great. Thanks for any thoughts.

edited to add: This may sound weird on my part, but I even considered telling the s/a/r that I was personally hurt and upset by how things went down during our interaction and was planning to send a complaint letter to the doctor/management about things, but wanted to give her a chance to explain herself if she would like prior to me possibly submitting an official complaint. That was in case I was "missing something" and/or she wanted to apologize to me - in which case, I may consider just leaving it alone and being satisfied that it was resolved on a personal level (I'd even be willing to tell her this...meaning I'd be willing to not submit a complaint if she could satisfactorily resolve things with me personally ...what do you all think?). For me, if she could explain her actions and show that she had an understanding of why they were wrong and show true remorse, then I would be willing to forgive. I'd probably let her know that I thought she should probably consider getting help with handling her thoughts and feelings and take time out to think about this situation and she could learn from it...For me, really, I just want her to understand what she did wrong, apologize, and move forward in a positive way to avoid such behavior in the future. I get know gratification in her possibly being punished at work, losing her job, etc. It's more about fixing an interpersonal wrong. It's cliche, but in many ways I just want an apology (a true one).

As far as I know, Psychopaths (as a rule) don't act crazily. Many misconceptions are made about psychopaths, them acting crazy is one.

 

[gmax137]

Without any details there's no way any of us can really help you. Of course, I understand and agree you shouldn't be providing any.

If she threatened you call the police right away. If not, just don't go back there.

 

[russ_watters]

I only skimmed, but the length makes one thing clear: you're making this way more complicated than it really is. You're not a psychologist yourself, so all the diagnosis stuff is just noise (and may have even contributed to the negative interaction). The only thing that matters is the negative interaction itself, on two levels:

1. If you have a legitimate fear of harm, call the police. Note: that is reserved for overt threats. 'I think she's psychotic (even though I'm not a doctor) so I fear her' is not a threat/is too vague to be reportable.

2. Deal with the negative customer service interaction for what it is, the way you deal with any negative customer service interaction:
a. Find a new doctor if the situation is untenable.
b. Report the behavior to the doctor. If she's the gatekeeper of indirect, written communication (even his email?), then the obvious way around that is direct, verbal communication.

Also, the way you deal with a bad interaction with a customer service gatekeeper in the moment is with complete deference. You cannot win against such a person by fighting, even if they are clearly the one being unreasonable: the fighting just makes it worse. It's not a good idea to tustle with someone who can make you miss a flight or spit in your food.

Note that if this doctor is smart enough to be your doctor, he should recognize the problem already, but it always helps to get feedback from customers. If the problem is real, he'll be getting other complaints.

 

[256bits]

Just getting an outside view would be great. Thanks for any thoughts.

Yeah. People can be strange at times and can pass along their makings to others who will begin to feel uncomfortable, and be left wondering "what the heck was that ?" and do some soul searching. Sometimes best to let it roll off your back, move on, and other times not. Difficult that is. Getting off on the wrong foot does make one want to turn back the clock and start over.

Your "edit to add" sounds a bit accusatory. albeit even if she is/was wrong in her behavior, people usually do not favour any hint of being put in their place. Try a friendly approach, and apologize yourself to her for the last awkward encounter, and if there is any thing that you can do to make her job go more smoothly.
If she gushes then she probably is human. If not, then a doink, and suspect in the art of personal exchange ( aren't we all ).

Not that I do that all and every time, as it only a suggestion as an attempt to cool the flames as little, the ones that flare up unexpectedly now and then as we walk our road in life.

 

[DennisN]

I think you got good advice from russ_watters above.

I just wanted to comment on this:

I personally think this person is a psychopath. Honestly and seriously. I've listened to corporate bullying lectures and lectures on psychopathy from TEDx speakers before and she has a lot of the characteristics:
-no remorse
-no sense of empathy (ability to feel and care about others feelings)
-manipulative
-self-centered
-controlling
[...]
For me, really, I just want her to understand what she did wrong, apologize, and move forward in a positive way to avoid such behavior in the future. I get know gratification in her possibly being punished at work, losing her job, etc. It's more about fixing an interpersonal wrong. It's cliche, but in many ways I just want an apology (a true one).

The personality traits you describe are not unique to psychopaths (more correctly ASPD). They are also traits of the four different disorders in the so called cluster B (antisocial, narcissistic, histrionic, borderline). Also the traits and personalities are themselves on a spectrum, i.e. people can have mild to severe disorders, and people can also have some of the traits without having the full disorder. It's complicated.

But if a person has a full cluster B disorder, it is very unlikely they will (sincerely) apologize and "move forward to avoid such behavior in the future". Why? Because they are disordered; they are different from nondisordered people, due to emotional deficiences they often do not understand completely, they do not change, and that is part of the disorder. I should also add that it is not a good idea to diagnose a person without being a professional in the field yourself (and I am not a professional).

EDIT: I also want to add something I learned from others who know this topic well: if you suspect that a person has a cluster B disorder, you should not confront them on this, i.e. say "you are this or that". That can actually be dangerous, because if they are disordered, it could mean trouble for you, since cluster Bs are erratic and can be quite vindictive. It's better to walk away from such a situation.

 

[kyphysics]

Yes, but in a way... almost all issues are this way. Unless you happen to have an audio-video recorder running, most people won't capture really bad customer service incidents. There is ONE witness at least - myself!

I'm just saying that in case the s/a/r denies things, then it could be a he said-she said situation from the doctor's/management's point of view. Does that make sense?

 

[russ_watters]

Yes, but in a way... almost all issues are this way. Unless you happen to have an audio-video recorder running, most people won't capture really bad customer service incidents. There is ONE witness at least - myself!

This isn't true. If she's really a bad seed, then dozens if not hundreds of people have witnessed it. They don't need to have seen your negative interaction, they had their own.

 

[kyphysics]

As far as I know, Psychopaths (as a rule) don't act crazily. Many misconceptions are made about psychopaths, them acting crazy is one.

Without any details there's no way any of us can really help you. Of course, I understand and agree you shouldn't be providing any.

If she threatened you call the police right away. If not, just don't go back there.

Interesting comment/point, EnglandSP.

I'm not sure "crazy" is the right word. I wrote that late and in a distraught mood. It's actually very hard to describe. She never "yelled", nor started berating or cursing at me. And she didn't become incoherent in the content of her speech or anything like that (as in speaking gibberish), but she did speak in a way that contradicted herself (first acknowledging something took place, then denying it later, and finally acknowledging a certain version of it after it was "safe" to do so).

Instead, the s/a/r did raise her voice (when I was speaking at a normal volume and even trying to be gentle about some discussion points), talk over me and would not let me speak, said she would hang up the phone on me if I continued to talk (the line got disconnected at one point and I could not reach her for about 10-15 minutes***), forcefully would direct the conversation a certain way by continuing to talk over me and raising her voice until I gave up and let her talk, avoided acknowledging a problem (possibly being manipulative and/or lying about it, by redirecting the discussion and contradicting herself on what she said she did), and spoke in a very aggressive way. She also did it in a very defensive way.

I'm still replaying things in my head and writing down all that happened. I'm trying to see both sides and to see if I may have contributed to any of the problems. But, so far, even giving her all the benefit of the doubt, I still walk away with her being really "crazy" (in the ways I described above). I can lessen the degree of her craziness a little bit, given the situation. But I do still think she crossed some lines. That's because I never raised my voice at her, berated her, cursed, or was disrespectful. That was the weird part. I was purposely trying to be calm about it, despite the situation being possibly inherently unpleasant. But she became very defensive, raised her voice, and became what felt to be manipulative and controlling.

I'll simply say that I was suggesting she made an "error" (if I can call it that). I don't want to get into specifics (at least publicly - but I can via PM) for privacy reasons and also because it's complicated. So, the purpose of my call was to ask about some procedural things and express concern about an error of sorts being made. The person who made it was the s/a/r/ herself.

I think I was surprised by how she was handling things. I would have felt an honorable person would want to investigate if an error was made. You know...if I made a mistake at work and a customer brought it to my attention, then I'd certainly take them seriously and try to rationally and calmly figure out what happened and if an error was made. I certainly would not try to lie about it, deny it, shift blame, etc. if I knew I did it. I would probably be embarrassed and disappointed in myself and want to try to rectify the situation in an appropriate manner.

With the s/a/r/, she got super defensive, aggressive, and controlling. The thing is, she acknowledged the problem at first, but when it became more clear what consequences it had on me (where maybe she thought she'd be liable in some financial way), she started changing her story a little and got super aggressive with me and wouldn't allow me to speak. She spoke over me to try to give her side and kept stressing that's how it happened (which was a change in story from what she acknowledged initially).

She seemed scared imho. But she also was very aggressive and controlling and possibly manipulative.

@gmax - Thanks for the thoughts. I did provide some details above (thought still very vague).

Unfortunately, while I don't have to physically return to that doctor for medical treatment, I'll likely still have to talk to the s/a/r over some billing issues. It will probably just have to be ONCE more. Although, I may be able to avoid that by speaking to a separate billing person. There's a small chance I have to still chat with her once more.

***The call was disconnected at some point. It happened after she threatened to hang up on me. When I called her back immediately, no one answered. I called maybe 15 min. again and she picked up. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I thought maybe she hung up on purpose to figure out what to do.

 

[kyphysics]

I think you got good advice from russ_watters above.

I just wanted to comment on this:The personality traits you describe are not unique to psychopaths (more correctly ASPD). They are also traits of the four different disorders in the so called cluster B (antisocial, narcissistic, histrionic, borderline). Also the traits and personalities are themselves on a spectrum, i.e. people can have mild to severe disorders, and people can also have some of the traits without having the full disorder. It's complicated.

But if a person has a full cluster B disorder, it is very unlikely they will (sincerely) apologize and "move forward to avoid such behavior in the future". Why? Because they are disordered; they are different from nondisordered people, due to emotional deficiences they often do not understand completely, they do not change, and that is part of the disorder. I should also add that it is not a good idea to diagnose a person without being a professional in the field yourself (and I am not a professional).

EDIT: I also want to add something I learned from others who know this topic well: if you suspect that a person has a cluster B disorder, you should not confront them on this, i.e. say "you are this or that". That can actually be dangerous, because if they are disordered, it could mean trouble for you, since cluster Bs are erratic and can be quite vindictive. It's better to walk away from such a situation.

I'm reading about the disorders you listed and thinking about this, DennisN.

I'd like to respond at a later time, but just wanted to post a quick thank you for the time and effort you made to write some potentially relevant material.

This person I dealt with may just have those qualities that could make them dangerous. I'm going to take some time to think about it over break.

...wish you all a nice Thanksgiving in the meantime and will catch up later...

This isn't true. If she's really a bad seed, then dozens if not hundreds of people have witnessed it. They don't need to have seen your negative interaction, they had their own.

That's usually true and something I had thought about as well. I figure if a person is truly rotten, then they'll usually be found out sooner or later.

Although, a really cunning person may not be. Or, in other cases, maybe they're known to be that way by peers/co-workers and business acquaintances, but no one "punishes" them and they're able to stick around the job for a long time.

In this case, maybe I am the first to have seen this darker side and I could be the first to report her.

 

[russ_watters]

Although, a really cunning person may not be. Or, in other cases, maybe they're known to be that way by peers/co-workers and business acquaintances, but no one "punishes" them and they're able to stick around the job for a long time.

Ok, but that's a different part of the problem and can be dealt with by the means I described previously.

In this case, maybe I am the first to have seen this darker side and I could be the first to report her.

That's a highly problematic way to think. It would be much more likely that you contributed to the negative interaction than that she is capable of hiding it from everyone but you (or worse, successfully abusing/manipulating everyone but you). Reality is generally simple and peoples' experiences are not unique (and you don't have special powers).

Regardless, this also has no real bearing on how you handle the situation.

 

[DennisN]

And she didn't become incoherent in the content of her speech or anything like that (as in speaking gibberish), but she did speak in a way that contradicted herself (first acknowledging something took place, then denying it later, and finally acknowledging a certain version of it after it was "safe" to do so).
[..]
I was purposely trying to be calm about it, despite the situation being possibly inherently unpleasant. But she became very defensive, raised her voice, and became what felt to be manipulative and controlling.
[..]
I'll simply say that I was suggesting she made an "error" (if I can call it that). [...] So, the purpose of my call was to ask about some procedural things and express concern about an error of sorts being made. The person who made it was the s/a/r/ herself.
[..]
With the s/a/r/, she got super defensive, aggressive, and controlling. The thing is, she acknowledged the problem at first, but when it became more clear what consequences it had on me (where maybe she thought she'd be liable in some financial way), she started changing her story a little and got super aggressive with me and wouldn't allow me to speak. She spoke over me to try to give her side and kept stressing that's how it happened (which was a change in story from what she acknowledged initially).

She seemed scared imho. But she also was very aggressive and controlling and possibly manipulative.

A couple of more cents from me: there could be many, many reasons why a person acts in that way. There are different things that can impact brief personality shifts, e.g. embarrassment from making a mistake, struggling with something difficult in personal life, or medical issues like depression, bipolar disorder etc.

Regarding people suffering from cluster B disorders I'd like to add that they can be very, very sensitive to criticism (due to a deep seated insecurity which is covered by the disorder). Criticism can make them act out (see e.g. narcissistic injury). Another thing which may be good to know is that cluster Bs can lie to your face without feeling any guilt, which can make them very, very good at lying.

But please note I am not encouraging you to make any diagnosis. That requires a professional in the field who also knows the person on a steady, more intimate level. I encourage you to be smart and protective: if you fear a person, I recommend you should walk away and stay away. And if you sincerely wish to complaint, maybe it would be possible to file an anonymous complaint in some way?

 

[StoneTemplePython]

You may want to watch some 'Curb Your Enthusiasm'. I can think of at least 5 episodes where Larry has some kind of major problem with a receptionist and/or doctor. Sometimes it's good to laugh.

Curb is also probably at least as informative as these TEDx talks you are watching on psychology and a lot funnier. Here is one of many links from Andrew Gelman (statistician at Columbia) one of TED's all time most popular talks 'power poses' that turns out to have no real evidence behind it. http://andrewgelman.com/2017/02/28/low-power-pose-update-ted-goes/ .

 

[nitsuj]

Our interaction was 10% in person and 90% over the phone today. Most of the crazy stuff happened by phone.

I have spoken to people over the phone in ways that I wouldn't if face to face; I'd think that to be opposite of psychopath.

How would you feel if this person read your comment here, and performed a non-professional armchair psychoanalysis of you based on your post and interpretation of the said social interaction and posted their determination somewhere on the internet?

Most just think..."What a jerk." and move on...but hey I'm not judging...

 

[Evo]

We are not capable of diagnosing such things via the internet, so this thread is closed.