Did you even read that first link of yours? If the US gov't is trying to build a global empire, they're doing a pretty lousy job - they've been going backwards for 50 years.Smurf said:
Bilal,Bilal said:American murdered since the occupation around 100000 Iraqi civilians. Their old puppet regime (Saddam) murdered 300000 Iraqi (even not all civilians). I think Saddam still worse than American … lets wait another to years , when the Iraqi victims became more than 300000 … may be they will accept tow withdraw partially leaving several large military bases, puppet dictator regime (another modified Saddam) and large security group willing to murder any Iraqi who oppose the new government .
This would be the infalliable "They're worse so we're OK" argument.Zlex said:Bilal,
Those arrayed against 'us' in Iraq are not just attacking 'us.' They are attacking Iraqi citizens. They are killing innocents and telling the world, 'if you don't give us what we want, we will continue to kill innocents, so ***** up.'
Given the leverage that tactic provides, it is an excceedingly small fringe of **** fighters that are generating the headlines.
Now, you, I, each of us, have to examine as best we can the motivations and tactics of those involved in this struggle and choose.
So, in essence, the lesson we're supposed to learn from all this barely hidden glee is, say some miscreant and a group of his toady thugs wants to take over NYC, Baltimore, Phila, or DC.Smurf said:They are civilians, these are civilians killing other civilians. They're not another Foreign enemy to deplore, this is in fact a civil war, stop looking at it like Us vs. Them. That's not it, technically you could even call them criminals.
Hey, you're the one who compared them to criminals.Smurf said:It's funny how you talk about Iraq and compare it as if it's already the 51st state.
NORWICH, Vt. -- A driver accused of running down and killing a Vermont state trooper is now facing murder charges.
Eric Daley, 23, of New Hampshire, was charged with second degree murder at a hearing Monday.
Drug charges were also filed against him.
Daley pleaded not guilty to lesser charges in June.
Police say Daley was running from police when he hit and killed Sgt. Michael Johnson in Norwich, Vt., in June.
Johnson was laying down spike strips on Interstate 91 to stop Daley. Police say Daley then took off and was captured a couple of days later in Pennsylvania.
The entire point of that post is that Iraq is NOT a western nation, let alone the 51st state and it shouldn't be treated as such, my comment on criminals was just a technicality.Zlex said:Hey, you're the one who compared them to criminals.
==========================================================Smurf said:I disagree, I think there's a strong possibility that Militant groups may ultimatly be ousted by a rising dictator (probably supported by the west).
But the fact is, this is something new for the US, bush is preping the world for his new world order and iraq is the testing ground. I think these next 4 years are going to be very interesting, good or bad, very interesting.
You should know my friend that: everything is relative, except one think, The only think that is absolute is that everything is relative...selfAdjoint said:Facts are absolute, if they can be found. "Truth" is in the eye of the believer.
You should see the prices of petrol and their increas in orde to talk of the side-effects that the war is having on everybodys life...scienceguy said:America can never withdraw from Iraq, we're already in it too deep and once we leave, it'll provide for a safe haven for terrorists to terrorize the world.