When does an isotope begin to decay?

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    Decay Isotope
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the decay of isotopes, specifically focusing on 60Fe found in meteorites. Participants explore when an isotope begins to decay, considering factors such as temperature and the physical state of the material, and how these relate to radioisotope dating methods.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that isotopes like 60Fe start decaying probabilistically from the moment they are created, regardless of their physical state.
  • Others question whether the decay rate is influenced by temperature, particularly in the context of solidification of meteorites.
  • One participant emphasizes that radioisotope dating measures the relationship between parent and daughter isotopes, indicating that decay is not linked to the solidification of the meteorite.
  • Another participant clarifies that dating methods require specific conditions and processes to isolate isotopes, which affects the interpretation of decay timelines.
  • There is a discussion about the assumptions made in methods like K-Ar dating and radiocarbon dating, highlighting the importance of understanding the context of the measurements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between an isotope's decay and its physical state, with no consensus reached on whether temperature affects the decay process or the implications for dating methods.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific conditions for radioisotope dating and the assumptions regarding the initial concentrations of isotopes in meteorites.

MarkL
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Take 60Fe found in meteorites. Does it start to decay the moment it is created. Or does it start to decay when it cools to a solid (a meteorite)? Does heat have anything to do with it? Thanks
 
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MarkL said:
Take 60Fe found in meteorites. Does it start to decay the moment it is created. Or does it start to decay when it cools to a solid (a meteorite)? Does heat have anything to do with it? Thanks
The individual atoms start decaying probabilistically according to their half-life from the moment that they are created (perhaps as decay products of other unstable isotopes, perhaps by nucleosynthesis in stars). Whether these atoms are assembled into a lump of iron or floating around in the heart of a star, whether they're part of a mass of solidified iron or a puddle of molten iron is irrelevant to their individual decay probability.

So now you're probably wondering how we can do radioisotope dating if the solidification of the meteorite doesn't start a "decay clock" in the individual atoms?
 
Yes. Thank you. So we measure the age of the isotope, not the meteorite.
 
MarkL said:
So we measure the age of the isotope, not the meteorite.

No.

The isotope starts decaying from its inception. However, in radioisotope dating, we measure two things: the parent nucleus and the daughter nucleus. We pick pairs where the properties differ: e.g. in K-Ar dating, the argon is a gas, so if the rock is still in liquid form, the argon bubbles out. Only after the rock solidifies is the argon trapped, so K-Ar dating tells us when the sample was last liquid.
 
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MarkL said:
Yes. Thank you. So we measure the age of the isotope, not the meteorite.
I don't think I would put it that way.
You cannot know the age of an isotope (which particular nucleus would you be looking at?) and you can only do dating under particular conditions and with particular isotopes.
There's a general principle for radio isotope dating but different methods to achieve it. There needs to have been some physical or chemical process that isolates a suitable isotope with none of the daughter product there. Then you have a starting point for the process, after which there will be a steady exponential decay. As the parent decays, the proportion of parent to daughter after a given time will tell you how long that particular sample has been isolated (assuming you know the half life). The meteorite is assumed to have been formed with a particular concentration of the parent and the ratio that's measured will tell you how long since the meteorite was formed.
Radio Carbon dating looks at the Carbon isotopes that have been locked into plant tissue, from CO2 in the air. The proportion of C12 and C14 in the atmosphere is assumed to have been what it is now and the proportion of the two isotopes will change in time for the fixed C in the dead plant. The time is how long since the plant photosynthesised the food.
 

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