When Will People Stop Making Excuses?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the claims regarding smoking and its relationship to cancer, exploring the nature of causation, personal responsibility, and societal attitudes towards health and addiction. Participants engage with the implications of these claims in both theoretical and practical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that smoking does not cause cancer but rather increases the risk, suggesting a deeper issue within the body that leads to cancerous cell growth.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the original claim about causation, implying that the definition of "to cause" is not being properly understood.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the original poster's views, suggesting that they may be influenced by commercial interests or flawed reasoning.
  • A later reply references genetic factors that may influence smoking addiction, indicating a biological basis for the difficulty in quitting smoking.
  • One participant draws a parallel between the discussion of smoking and other societal issues, emphasizing personal responsibility and the consequences of actions.
  • Another participant critiques the notion that eliminating smoking or sun exposure would eliminate cancer, arguing that cancer is a result of the body's imperfect metabolism.
  • There are references to cultural attitudes towards responsibility, with some participants expressing frustration over perceived excuses made by individuals regarding their health choices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the relationship between smoking and cancer. Some agree with the notion that smoking is a risk factor, while others challenge the idea that it is a direct cause. The discussion remains unresolved with competing perspectives on personal responsibility and societal influences.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various definitions and interpretations of causation, as well as the role of genetics in addiction, indicating that assumptions about health behaviors and their consequences may vary widely. The discussion also touches on broader societal implications of personal responsibility.

LightbulbSun
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http://www.lockergnome.com/oztech/2008/07/06/smoking-does-not-cause-cancer/"

Smoking Does Not Cause Cancer

Sunday, July 6th, 2008
by oztech

That’s right. It doesn’t. Smoking does not cause cancer. You know what? Neither does the sun. You might say “How can you say that? Studies have shown….” or “My grandfather died of lung cancer because of cigarettes!”. No he didn’t, but before you rip me a new one in the comments section, hear me out. Anything you’ve ever heard about causing cancer does some sort of damage to cells, right? Cigarettes can kill cells in your lungs, mouth and throat. The sun kills skin cells. Sometimes when the cells rebuild themselves, they become ‘mutated’ and cancerous cells are born. Does the cigarette smoke or sun actually cause the cells to be cancerous? I don’t believe so. Does it put a person at increased risk of cancer? Yes, I would agree with that.

My point is that many ‘experts’ blame cancer on certain products such as cigarettes. I don’t believe these products actually cause cancer though. A human should be able to damage cells and the cells should regrow naturally regardless of how they were damaged. It’s how the body was designed. I believe the cause of cancer is something deeper in the body that doesn’t allow our bodies to always rebuild cells properly. Deeper than what cigarettes or sun can touch. We’re all blaming the wrong elements. The solution is not to stay out of the sun and to not smoke. The solution is to find out what causes our cells to become cancerous and target it.


I was thinking about how flawed this line of thinking is. Your brain produces DMT naturally, but does that mean we should go hallucinate on some DMT? No. When will people stop making excuses?
 
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I wonder if this person will still hold to this argument when he or she is sitting in a cancer clinic and the doctor tells them the survival outlook for lung cancer or head and neck cancer patient.

Unfortunately, as long as people are addicted, they'll keep coming up with excuses.
 
Maybe he should review the definition of the verb "to cause".

And people won't stop making excuses. ;-)
 
Choppy said:
I wonder if this person will still hold to this argument when he or she is sitting in a cancer clinic and the doctor tells them the survival outlook for lung cancer or head and neck cancer patient.

He'll blame it on something else. I'm sure of this.
 
"It’s how the body was designed."

haaaa his controls how our body is designed...

Are you sure that's not a cigarettes commercial?
 
Bright Wang said:
"It’s how the body was designed."

haaaa his controls how our body is designed...

Are you sure that's not a cigarettes commercial?

It could be one he's working on. I don't know.
 
WASHINGTON - Quitting smoking can be difficult for some and almost impossible for others. The reason -- your genes -- New research has found that a certain gene can make the difference as to whether or not someone will start smoking and then become addicted to the nicotine. In two studies featured in this month's American Psychological Association's journal of Health Psychology, researchers discovered that people carrying a particular version of the dopamine transporter gene (SLC6A3-9) are less likely to start smoking before the age of 16 and are more likely to be able to quit smoking if they start. [continued]
http://www.apa.org/releases/smoke99.html
 
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Ivan Seeking said:
http://www.apa.org/releases/smoke99.html

Interesting stuff.
 
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Quit cracking down on knife crime! Stabbing doesn't kill. The fact that humans don't have platy Kevlar rib cages kills!

:wink:
 
  • #10
It's abundant in the world today. People not taking responsability for their actions and others actions. Now the attentive reader will think "what, take responsibility for other? wt* is he writing about?".

Every action you take my friend, will result in consequences for other people. That is how we take responsibility for other people. Not deciding for them, but decide how we interact.

And making excuses like "the state will take care of homelessness", "I feel violated because you are stern to me" and my all time favourite "I microwaved my dog, so I am suing the microwave company".

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF THE SCHRÖDINGER EQ; can people take more responsibility for themselves and their interaction with others?
 
  • #11
Well, for the love of the Schrödinger equation... okay.
 
  • #12
I remember in I think it was Grand Theft Auto 3 or Vice City where on one of the radio stations you had a gun nut call in. His claim?

Guns don't kill people. A bullet, a piece of metal, cannot kill you. An doctor will tell you that. You can die of blood loss or of organ failure, but not of "a piece of metal", therefore guns don't kill.
 
  • #13
LightbulbSun said:
I was thinking about how flawed this line of thinking is. ...

Are you suggesting that you are in fundamental disagreement with the esteemed professionals at the Tobacco Institute?
 
  • #14
Frankly, the guy's right. And this is not news to us.

We all acknowledge that it is the body producing cancerous cells. Cancer is a function of the body gone awry. Eliminating smoking and eliminating sun exposure will not eliminate cancer since cancer is part of an imperfect (in an ideal sense) metabolism.

But so what? This guy's simply come to that realization that we all know, but that we also know is moot.

The Institute for Cancer Research does not concentrate on yanking ciagarettes out of people's mouths, it concentrates on a cure - a medical cure - of the body. Duhh.

That being said, it is also no shock that smoking cigarettes causes the body to grow cancers. Not smoking drastically reduces this, ergo...:rolleyes:
 
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