Where are Pilot Waves located?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature and location of Bohmian pilot waves, particularly whether they exist within spacetime or are independent of the Lorentzian metric. Participants explore the relationship between pilot waves and concepts such as the vacuum, false vacuum, and magnetic monopoles, as well as the implications of these ideas for quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether pilot waves are located inside spacetime or if they exist independently of the Lorentzian metric.
  • There is a proposal that pilot waves could be associated with a false vacuum, potentially composed of magnetic monopoles, raising questions about their substanceless nature.
  • One participant suggests that Bohmian interpretations may retain a "Copenhagen essence," contrasting with pure Bohmian views, and discusses Dirac's negative sea of electrons as a conceptual framework.
  • Another participant references Dr. William Tiller's theory that pilot waves exist in a separate vacuum with a magnetoelectric field, proposing a symmetry between electric charges in matter and magnetic monopoles in the pilot wave domain.
  • There is a call for examples of results derived from Tiller's theories that explain phenomena not understood otherwise, alongside a discussion of the Maxwellian viewpoint on electromagnetic fields and vacuum tension.
  • Participants express a desire for theoretical counterarguments to the proposed ideas, emphasizing the need for robust debate rather than personal critiques.
  • One participant notes the lack of peer-reviewed support for Tiller's ideas, suggesting that speculative discussions may not align with forum guidelines.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the nature of pilot waves and their relationship to the vacuum and magnetic monopoles. Participants express differing opinions on the validity of Tiller's theories and the need for peer-reviewed support.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the speculative nature of the discussion, with some ideas lacking formal peer-reviewed validation. The conversation includes various assumptions about the nature of vacuum and pilot waves that are not universally accepted.

riezer
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Are Bohmian pilot waves located inside spacetime? Or is it independent of the Lorenztian metric? What are the constraints or possibilities? What is the pilot wave connection to the vacuum. We have heard such a thing as false vacuum. Could pilot waves be located in a false vacuum? If this false vacuum separates itself from our vacuum... could pilot waves located in the false vacuum be composed of magnetic monopoles? Or are pilot waves completely substanceless? What are the mainstream belief and theoretical possibilities that make it consistent with the predictions of quantum mechanics?
 
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I think Bohmians are still Copenhagenist in "essence" in that the vacuum were being conceptualized in a Copenhagen sense. This is in contrast to pure Bohmians. I'll explain. Remember Dirac when he proposed about negative sea of electrons in the vacuum? This structure in the vacuum is in contrast to pure mathematical formulation which is what I meant having a Copenhagen "essence".

Now is it possible to conceptualize the pilot wave purely without any Copenhagen flavoring? Yes. One can treat the pilot wave as being in another sector of vacuum separated from the vacuum of matter. A solid state physicist Dr. William Tiller (who wrote the book "The Science of Crystallization: Macroscopic Phenomena and Defect Generation" https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521388287/?tag=pfamazon01-20) actually proposed that this separate vacuum where pilot waves were located have counterpart of our electromagnetic field, he called it magnetoelectric field where as counterpart of our matter electric charge, it has magnetic monopoles in that vacuum domain. This produce a perfect symmetry where electric charge in our matter world has its counterpart of magnetic charge (monopoles) in the pilot wave world (or vacuum). Now is there any solid arguments or theoretical reasoning why this proposal is not possible? Dr. Tiller expanded the theory to include many things but let me just focus on this main claim above because it is the meat of it. If it is refuted.. then everything falls down like domino so let's avoid his other stuff. If if you know this pilot wave in separate vacuum theory is false, then please share why so.. attack the theory.. not the personality.
 
Very intriguing riezer. Can you point out an example of a result Tiller derives which explains effects that are not understood otherwise?

Drawing back to a Maxwellian viewpoint, EM fields are propagated because there is tension or pressure (positive or negative) of some type lying underneath the vacuum. It isn't required that that tension has only a single component or only one manifestation, especially if we are considering weak and strong forces in addition to EM.
 
PhilDSP said:
Very intriguing riezer. Can you point out an example of a result Tiller derives which explains effects that are not understood otherwise?

Drawing back to a Maxwellian viewpoint, EM fields are propagated because there is tension or pressure (positive or negative) of some type lying underneath the vacuum. It isn't required that that tension has only a single component or only one manifestation, especially if we are considering weak and strong forces in addition to EM.


I don't know. But let's just focus on the basic idea and whether it can be refuted. The idea or symmetry that

Particle world = Electromagnetic force composing of electric monopoles
Wave (pilot wave) world = Magnetoelectric force composing of magnetic monopoles

Each of them in its own vacuum region.

Remember de Broglie when he boldly proposed that not only is photon wave-like but all matter. Before him, no one even thought about it. So could we have similar Nobel calibre thing in this this idea of magnetic monopoles populating the pilot wave vacuum world or region? Ok. Someone expert in vacuum physics or even Bohmians, please refute this by outright theoretical counterargument so we won't think about it or be bothered about it again. Thanks.
 
Physics Forums is not in the business of refuting or discussing ideas that have not already been put forth in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Please click the "Rules" link the top of any page here and note the section Overly Speculative Posts.

I can find no indication that Tiller has published his ideas in a peer-reviewed journal, only on his own Web site and possibly in non-academic (vanity press?) publications.
 
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