Where are the oldest sections of the Milky Way?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of ancient civilizations and their potential locations within the Milky Way galaxy. Participants explore the implications of cosmic timescales, the lifecycle of stars, and the possibility of finding remnants of older species or civilizations on planets that may be billions of years old.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Speculative reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant mentions the idea of ancient species and archaeological sites in science fiction, questioning where older species than humanity might be found, particularly in star systems millions of years older than ours.
  • Another participant argues that on cosmological timescales, millions of years are insignificant, and within the galactic disk, there are no parts that are categorically "older" or "younger."
  • A different viewpoint suggests that while older stars exist, star systems billions of years older than ours would likely be nearing the end of their lifecycle, raising questions about the viability of life in such systems.
  • Some participants speculate that advanced civilizations could develop technology that allows them to maintain their existence or even escape their home worlds, regardless of their star's lifecycle.
  • There is a discussion about the potential for civilizations to leave behind ruins rather than existing societies, with one participant proposing a narrative involving advanced aliens escaping to a parallel universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of star age and the existence of ancient civilizations. While some agree that older stars are prevalent, others challenge the relevance of age in determining the presence of life or technology. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of their assumptions regarding the lifecycle of stars and the conditions necessary for life, as well as the speculative nature of their ideas about ancient civilizations.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in science fiction, cosmology, and the theoretical implications of ancient civilizations in the universe may find this discussion engaging.

Khatti
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I'm partial to Alan Dean Foster's Commonwealth Series.One of the features of that series are extinct species who one ruled the galaxy. The first book in the series, The Tar-Aiym Krang, is about an artifact that is several million years old--and still functional. The End of the Matter is also about an artifact, and archaeological sites abound in the series.

The Commonwealth series is not the only story or set of stories where ancient species and archaeology abound, Several of you might have other books that are favorites dealing with this trope. The question that intrigues me professionally is: "Where would species much older than humanity be found? One logical place to start is on planets and in star systems that are millions of years older than ours. Which brings me to my question: are there sections of the galaxy that are older than our immediate neighborhood, and where are those sections to be found?
 
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Millions of years are nothing on cosmological timescales.
Older stars (as in: billions of years) are around everywhere, within the galactic disk there are no parts that would be "older" or "younger" in general. Not that you would need it for such a story - life on Earth needed billions of years to evolve until a species was able to go to space. You could easily imagine this process to be a few million years slower or faster on other planets.
 
mfb said:
Older stars (as in: billions of years) are around everywhere, within the galactic disk there are no parts that would be "older" or "younger" in general.

I was wondering if that might be the wrong question to ask. But, if you don't ask you don't find out. Another thought that occurs to me is that star systems that are billions of years older than ours would be at the end of their star's lifecycle. Egyptious may have orbited a star that has long since gone nova.

Technology is also not necessarily based on some sort of linear timeline. The ancient Greeks experimented with steam power. There were cultural reasons why they didn't go from there to the locomotive, but there are no physical reasons why they couldn't have.
 
Our sun will make Earth inhabitable within about 1 to 1.5 billion years, but it will continue to be a main-sequence star for a few billion years.
Smaller stars live longer. Getting twice the lifetime of sun with a nice habitable planet is no problem.
 
Another thought that occurs to me is that the world of a truly old civilization may have ended its tectonic sequence and the atmosphere may have finally dissipated. Though a really advanced race like the Tar-Aiym would probably be able to "fix" that if they were feeling sentimental.
 
There is a maximum theoretical age a civilization could be. I think it's something like 5 billion years old (it'd take about 8 billion for the universe to produce enough raw materials for life.) I would imagine with the progress of even one billion years, your home star going nova is of little consequence. If we extrapolate our own progress over that time scale, our technology would essentially make us gods.

I have a feeling that once humans develop the technology to really explore space in depth, finding derelict ships and civilizations over a million years old would be much more common than finding a young one. There is no reason that we evolved when we did, on a cosmological scale, we're a blink of an eye away from the dinosaurs.

Advanced species could probably build self-maintaining systems that last millions or even billions of years.
 
newjerseyrunner said:
I would imagine with the progress of even one billion years, your home star going nova is of little consequence.

I was thinking more in terms of finding the ruins of a civilization more than the civilization itself. No matter how advanced we become if we split the sun going nova is still going to be hell on the Coliseum. I have an idea for a space opera where very old and very advanced aliens in essence escape into a parallel universe they tailor to their desires. They aren't very concerned what happens to the old, home world.
 
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