Where Did I Go Wrong in My Canonical Transformation Problem?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a canonical transformation problem in Hamiltonian mechanics, specifically involving the transformation of momenta and the reduction of a Hamiltonian to a simpler form. The original poster presents their attempts to derive expressions for the transformed momenta and the transformed Hamiltonian.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the most general expressions for the momenta P_1 and P_2 based on a given transformation and questions why their result for P_1 differs from the solution manual. Other participants suggest that there may have been an oversight in the substitution process when transforming the Hamiltonian.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some offering insights into potential mistakes in the original poster's calculations. There is recognition of differing results and a collaborative effort to identify errors, but no consensus has been reached regarding the correct expressions for P_1 and P_2.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a possible function C in the expression for F, which may affect the results. The discussion also highlights discrepancies between the original poster's results and those found in the solution manual, indicating a need for careful review of the transformation steps.

mjordan2nd
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Homework Statement



Let Q^1 = (q^1)^2, Q^2 = q^1+q^2, P_{\alpha} = P_{\alpha}\left(q,p \right), \alpha = 1,2 be a CT in two freedoms. (a) Complete the transformation by finding the most general expression for the P_{\alpha}. (b) Find a particular choice for the P_{\alpha} that will reduce the Hamiltonian

H = \left( \frac{p_1 - p_2}{2q^1} \right)^2 + p_2 + (q^1 + q^2)^2

to

K = P_1^2 + P_2.

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



I have shown that

P_1 = \frac{1}{2q^1} \left( p_1 + \frac{\partial F}{\partial q^1} - p_2 - \frac{\partial F}{\partial q^2} \right),

P_2 = p_2 + \frac{\partial F}{\partial q^2}

is the most general canonical transformation for the momenta, where F=F(q^1, q^2). This is consistent with the solution manual. For part b, however, the answer I get for an intermediate step is inconsistent with the solutions manual, and I don't understand why. Given that the transformation is canonical, all I need to do to find the transformed Hamiltonian K is find the inverse transformation and plug it into the Hamiltonian H. The inverse transformation is

p_2 = P_2 - \frac{\partial F}{\partial q^2},
p_1 = 2q^1P_1 + P_2 - \frac{\partial F}{\partial q^1}.

Plugging this into H, and renaming H to K since it's in terms of the transformed coordinates we have

K = P_1^2 + P_2 - \frac{\partial F}{\partial q^2} + (q^1 + q^2)^2.

Since we want K to be

K = P_1^2 + P_2,

this means

\frac{\partial F}{\partial q^2} = (q^1+q^2)^2 = (q^1)^2+(q^2)^2+2q^1q^2.
F=q^2(q^1)^2 + \frac{1}{3}(q^2)^3 +q^1(q^2)^2 + C.

Plugging this into the general transformation I derived I find that

P_1 = \frac{1}{2q^1} \left(p_1-p_2-(q^1)^2 \right),
P_2 = (q^1+q^2)^2+p_2.

My equation for P_2 is consistent with the solutions manual, but my equation for P_1 is not. According to the solutions manual

P_1=\frac{p_1+p_2}{2q^1}.

So my question is, where did I go wrong. I have worked out the problem twice, and get the same answer for P_1.
 
Last edited:
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mjordan2nd said:
H = \left( \frac{p_1 - p_2}{2q^1} \right)^2 + p_2 + (q^1 + q^2)^2

The inverse transformation is

p_2 = P_2 - \frac{\partial F}{\partial q^2},
p_1 = 2q^1P_1 + P_2 - \frac{\partial F}{\partial q^1}.

Plugging this into H, and renaming H to K since it's in terms of the transformed coordinates we have

K = P_1^2 + P_2 - \frac{\partial F}{\partial q^2} + (q^1 + q^2)^2.

I think you dropped some terms when you substituted for ##\left( \frac{p_1 - p_2}{2q^1} \right)^2## in H.

Since we want K to be

K = P_1^2 + P_2,

this means

\frac{\partial F}{\partial q^2} = (q^1+q^2)^2 = (q^1)^2+(q^2)^2+2q^1q^2.
F=q^2(q^1)^2 + \frac{1}{3}(q^2)^3 +q^1(q^2)^2 + C.

Note that the C here is possibly a function of ##q^1##.

According to the solutions manual

P_1=\frac{p_1+p_2}{2q^1}.

I might have made a mistake, but I get P_1=\frac{p_1-p_2}{2q^1}
 
Wow, don't know how I managed to do that twice. I think I see my mistake now. Thank you.

Edit: I also get flipped minus signs from the book's answers

P_2=p_2-(q^1+q^2)^2

P_1=\frac{1}{2q^1}(p_1-p_2)
 
Last edited:
mjordan2nd said:
Wow, don't know how I managed to do that twice. I think I see my mistake now. Thank you.

Edit: I also get flipped minus signs from the book's answers

P_2=p_2-(q^1+q^2)^2

P_1=\frac{1}{2q^1}(p_1-p_2)

I get P_2=p_2+(q^1+q^2)^2 and P_1=\frac{1}{2q^1}(p_1-p_2)
 

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