Where do ex particle theorists work?

[ParticleGrl]

And why would they hire you at an entry level position? There are plenty of applicants who are available and they are not “overqualified”. So your chances are even lower.

But the issue then is that I am simply not qualified for non-entry level positions in most areas. What lives in the realm between unqualified and over-qualified?

Companies will provide training at any level, even for PhD-level jobs.

The issue I'm encountering is that phd level jobs tend to be subject (and even sub-specialty) specific. Companies want a phd level mechanical engineer with experience in computational fluid dynamics, etc. i.e. they want specific technical knowledge coming in. Am I limited to the handful of openings that want my phd qualifies me for? (basically the skillset of a mathematician), or do I look for entry level non-technical work that seems interesting?

 

[caffenta]

The issue I'm encountering is that phd level jobs tend to be subject (and even sub-specialty) specific. Companies want a phd level mechanical engineer with experience in computational fluid dynamics, etc. i.e. they want specific technical knowledge coming in. Am I limited to the handful of openings that want my phd qualifies me for? (basically the skillset of a mathematician), or do I look for entry level non-technical work that seems interesting?

There may be less jobs available for your qualifications, but you also have a lot less people to compete with. For an entry-level job, you're going to compete with lots and lots of people.

 

[twofish-quant]

Define overqualified? (...) I know very little about most businesses. Whats wrong with an entry level career-track position at some company? Why wouldn't that be a good way to learn some business-related skills?

From the point of view of the employer, the problem is that you are likely to learn those skills very quickly, and after a few months, you'll figure out that you are vastly underpaid, and you'll demand more money or leave.

Something that works if someone rejects you for being overqualified is to find out what job they are worried that you will jump to, and apply for that.

Without training, I am incapable of jumping straight into any job and performing day one.

I'm pretty sure that you are more prepared than you think you are.

What I'm hearing from interviewers is that there are enough technical people out of work that they can hire people who ARE ready to go day one, many of whom have done similar (or even the exact same) work in the past.

But they may be overqualified (i.e. will have to be paid more).

My reasoning is that at least companies expect to have to provide some training for entry level work. Is this reasoning wrong?

Yes. On day one, you'll be expected to do X, Y, and Z, or figure out how to do X, Y, and Z. It will take a few weeks to figure it out.

 

[twofish-quant]

You are overqualified for these jobs. At every interview, if you even get one, you will be asked: "you have a PhD in physics, why are you looking for an entry-level job?" I'm almost certain that any answer you give them will not satisfy them.

In particular, there are big problems with the real reason which is the fact that you want to stay in San Diego with your SO. If personal circumstances change for good or bad, then the employer is risking having you leave suddenly. If your SO is staying in SD because of a post-doc that lasts for another two years, what happens if two months from now, your SO gets a better job offer in Boston?

If the job in SD is the best that you can get anywhere, then there is going to be a reason for you to stay in SD. However, if your SO is the *only* reason for you not leaving SD, then it's actually a pretty weak thing that keeps you attached to the job.

 

[twofish-quant]

But the issue then is that I am simply not qualified for non-entry level positions in most areas.

If you can do quantum field theory, that qualifies you for a lot of stuff. O

The issue I'm encountering is that phd level jobs tend to be subject (and even sub-specialty) specific. Companies want a phd level mechanical engineer with experience in computational fluid dynamics, etc.

Companies want someone that will walk on water. Usually they can't find someone that walks on water, and even people that are decent swimmers are asking for too much money. After getting through everyone that won't take the job, that leaves you.

One other problem is that in the job descriptions, they usually don't mention that they are looking for a particle physicist, because they weren't expecting one to apply.

Am I limited to the handful of openings that want my phd qualifies me for? (basically the skillset of a mathematician), or do I look for entry level non-technical work that seems interesting?

Spam your resume to anyone that seems interested.

 

[twofish-quant]

Two-fish you mention that HR knows diddly about hiring Ph.D's in quantitative finance. Who exactly does know?

Other Ph.D.'s. One thing about quantitative finance is that the people in management positions tend also to be Ph.D.'s.

How do you get these jobs, who are you supposed to contact?

There are headhunters (see www.phds.org[/url], [url]www.efinancialcareers.com[/url], and [url]www.dice.com[/URL]). Also if you find someone yapping away in an online forum, it doesn't hurt to send a private e-mail to see if they know anything.

[QUOTE]As a newly minted Ph.D, is it really enough to just spam resumes online?[/QUOTE]

Spam it to headhunters.

 

[ferm]

So I finished up a phd in particle phenomenology very recently. After much soul searching, I've given up on the academic dream (6 years of postdocing? No thanks!). My significant other is working in San Diego, so I'm hoping to land a job there, which seems to preclude the traditional route for ex-theoretical physicists (finance).

Career services at my university has proven worthless ("we are experts in the PROCESS, not what jobs are out there.") So my question is this- what kind of industries hire ex-theoretical physicists? Any ex-physicists out there with experience aiming at one geographic region?

Hi,

One source of employment for physics PhDs in management consulting, specially (but not only) in large firms. Actually, this is the major route for ex-particle-theoreticians that I've known about recently, since there are very few finance firms where I live.

I even know about physics PhDs working at design consultancies. If you don't really know where to aim your career at, I would suggest you to apply to any company where you think your skills could be useful! (And you will have to sell that to them)

 

[ferm]

FWIW, most of my friends who left the field did not say "I have a degree in physics, what can I do with it?" They said, "What do I want to do?" and then proceeded to leverage their degrees to do it.

I think the first question is far more common. Sometimes it's not that easy to know what would be great to do, specially looking at the possibilities from outside. Almost every PhD leaving academia will be sure of that.

 

[sin2beta]

The first thing that comes to mind for me is Milliman. It's an actuarial firm. There is an office in San Diego. When I first left undergrad I worked at Milliman (not in San Diego) and the people there were great. It was like I never left academia in a way. I had worked on the BaBar project for years and had a few math Ph.D. coworkers. As well and an experimental HEP physics Ph.D. from UCSD. Half of my office was ex mathematicians or ex physicists. But the job is not for everyone. It was a great job. But I just didn't like it. They usually give paid internships (if you just want to try it out while working on the first exam or job hunting) and the pay is very good, at least at my office. Ultimately, I went to grad school. But it is something to look into. They love Ph.Ds in math or physics. But I am not familiar with the culture and hiring process of the San Diego location.

 

[charmedp'cle]

Good question (and replies)! My fiancée is in the same boat (phenomenology PhD), but we're in Chicago. I still have +/-5yrs on my PhD, and we aren't okay with being split up for the next 6 yrs of post-docing. I keep reading that NYC is where it's at for physics PhDs outside of academia, but can he convince a possible employer that he will stay in Chicago? More than that, of course, are there opportunities in the Chicago area?

 

[twofish-quant]

I keep reading that NYC is where it's at for physics PhDs outside of academia, but can he convince a possible employer that he will stay in Chicago?

It's hard because the employer knows more about the job market than you do, and the reason the employer is not likely to believe you when you swear up and down that you will not move to NYC is that there is a good chance that you are replacing someone that swore up and down that they would not move to NYC and then did just that once they found out how much better NYC was. (And two of the people I interviewed for told me that they wouldn't hire me for exactly that reason.)

For finance hiring, people outside of NYC will easily hire Ph.D.'s that have been to NYC, decided that they hated it, and want desperately to leave. But if you haven't been there, the employer will want to know how you know that NYC isn't good for you. If you've tried a long distance relationship and it just isn't working out, that's a very convincing reason that an employer will believe. If you haven't tried it, then the employer is going to be rather skeptical when you say that you would hate going to NYC, because they know more about the job market than you do.

One other thing, is that flying in and out of NYC is surprisingly cheap and easy. I spent three years working in NYC Monday to Friday and then flying back to my wife and kids in Texas on the weekends, and the really scary thing was that I was on a plane full of people that were doing the same thing.

More than that, of course, are there opportunities in the Chicago area?

The big financial employer in Chicago is Citadel. But for most things you need to go through a HH.

 

[charmedp'cle]

Thanks for all the advice! I've been looking at dice.com, efinancial, phds.org, and opexecutivesearch. All of them will allow me to upload a resume, which begs the question: how do you write a finance resume as a particle theorist? I haven't found much info on that, especially because, while my fiance has taught things like quant field theory, and has been pretty well published for a grad student, he doesn't have any actual experience in the field. Thus, the samples I've been seeing for finance resumes aren't really very good guidance.

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[twofish-quant]

Thanks for all the advice! I've been looking at dice.com, efinancial, phds.org, and opexecutivesearch. All of them will allow me to upload a resume,

You should realize that resume uploads are useless since no one I know every looks into those databases. The thing that is important is the list of headhunters that may have positions available. If the resume doesn't go to a person, then it's lost.

which begs the question: how do you write a finance resume as a particle theorist?

I'll write up something in wikiversity about that over the next few weeks.

But

1) remember that the resume is a movie trailer. It needs to be short and sweet. One psychological block that people run into is when they think of a resume as an autobiography. It's not. It's a commercial for an autobiography. So one to two pages.

2) Make sure that you include the basics. Name, e-mail, address, contact phone number. Also somewhere in the end, you should put your immigration status.

3) There are two people that look at the resume. The first is an HR and HH person that does spam filtering and looks for specific keywords. The next person is someone who also likely has a Ph.D. in particle physics. You need to have some of the keywords in your resume so that it gets past person A to person B.

Also go on www.wilmott.com and look for Dominic Connor. He has a guide for looking for quant jobs. Also a lot of HH's will provide useful advice. Talking with headhunters is interesting, because you will meet people from the extremely useful to the totally crooked.

 

[mal4mac]

Check out the job site for USD. Hmmm... let's see... second job listed...

Administrative Assistant II Graduate Admissions

Why not do something like that? I've known ex PhDs take this kind of admin. job - their knowledge of "the system" is very useful to the powers that be, and if even the admin. assistants have PhDs then it makes the department look good! So you should have more chance than people without PhDs (not true outside University environments...)

This "stay in academia, but be very flexible" approach always worked for me! Basically you have more experience than most in the "University industry", never mind what PhD you took, and each industry likes their own...

 

[twofish-quant]

Why not do something like that? I've known ex PhDs take this kind of admin. job - their knowledge of "the system" is very useful to the powers that be, and if even the admin. assistants have PhDs then it makes the department look good!

It can be very, very good. It can be very, very bad. You can have problems if you have the department treats the administrative assistant as if they were a janitor that didn't graduate high school.

I do know of a rather large number of astrophysicists that have been able to stay in academia by doing academic IT. You get a job running the department computer clusters, and you have in your job assignment that you also do research for X% of the time.

 

[mal4mac]

I do know of a rather large number of astrophysicists that have been able to stay in academia by doing academic IT. You get a job running the department computer clusters, and you have in your job assignment that you also do research for X% of the time.

I was one of those large numbers. If the OP has any computing experience at all this could be a good path to take, but I get the impression she doesn't have much if any. I've known classics and biology PhDs who have had good times doing admin. assistant type jobs. Make sure to talk to the people you will be working with at interview to see if the atmosphere is good.