Where do the Physical Laws come from?

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The discussion explores the origins of physical laws, questioning whether they arise from a deeper cause or are simply accepted as given. Participants argue that physical laws may stem from human observations and the patterns we perceive in nature, suggesting they are approximations rather than absolute truths. The conversation touches on the idea that laws could be emergent properties of self-organizing systems, which develop equilibrium from initial conditions. Some participants express skepticism about the notion that laws exist without reason, emphasizing the need for a logical foundation for scientific inquiry. Ultimately, the dialogue highlights the philosophical implications of understanding the provenance of physical laws in relation to human perception and scientific exploration.
  • #51
wofsy said:
Whether or not there is an infinite ordering of universal laws why can't there be a substrate - a source of laws that is by it nature indestructible (explaining why the universe exists). We would then want to discover how laws arise if they in fact are changing at all.

I do agree that this is a great topic for a thesis or study of some kind. The origins of the laws of nature and physical laws will be hard to excavate and prove the seeds for these mammoth "guidelines" exist or existed.
 
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  • #52
From: http://mwolff.tripod.com/instant.html

The Origin of Instantaneous Action in Natural Laws

Milo Wolff
Technotran Press

ABSTRACT. In the last millennium we learned that objects obey fixed laws of nature. Until the last decade, these laws have been entirely empirical; that is, the laws were measured properties of nature, no theoretical or physical origin was known. These measurements indicated that the movement of energy and information, which are needed to carry out the laws, travel consistently at the speed of light. This motion satisfied our rule of causality; that is: Events always occur after their causes.

However, some events have annoyingly seemed to violate the rule of causality. Certain forces and events seem to be transmitted instantaneously. These events are the transmission of energy and information which are related to the gravitational force, the magnetic force, inertial force, and relatively new phenomena termed “The EPR Effect " (Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen) and the Mossbauer Effect.

It is the purpose of this article to explain the origin and cause of the strange instantaneous events associated with these laws. We will show that causality is not actually being violated. Instead, the strange events are merely appearances, “shaumkamm” in the words of Irwin Schroedinger. They were created by our former incomplete knowledge of the Wave Structure of Matter and of the energy exchange mechanism of quantum wave structures. All communication is actually at velocity c.

In order to understand this it is first necessary to review the origin of the natural laws and the newly developed Wave Structure of Matter, because the cause of these events lies in this wave structure and the medium of the waves. Without this preliminary review, instantaneous action cannot be explained. The Wave Structure of Matter is an exciting frontier of science which reveals the connectedness of all matter in the universe. It provides new understanding of quantum events and unravels many puzzles, including that of instantaneous action.

Somewhat on topic. Its pointing to a congruence of law throughout the universe before we've even been there.

Here's his introduction, focusing on the origins of natural law and physical law.

INTRODUCTION. The origins of the natural laws from the Wave Structure of Matter are new topics in science. To study them you must first reject the ancient Democritus particle made of ‘substances' and replace it with the correct quantum wave structure of matter. The rules of quantum waves are simple and easy to visualize. The hard part is getting rid of old thinking habits, particularly 'matter substance,’ and replacing it with ‘wave structure.’ One major fault of the particle ‘matter substance' concept was that it did not provide answers to fundamental questions like: How are the basic units of time, length, and mass formed? What is the mechanism of energy exchange? What is the origin of the natural laws? What is a photon? What is a particle? The review below describes how the Wave Structure of Matter provides these answers.

Here's Wolff's opinion on how Force Laws Operate

How do Force Laws Operate?

Two particles move towards each other obeying a law. How is the direction found? How is the separation measured? What establishes length scales? Similar questions apply to time. Every particle, everywhere, has to have access to the same clock in order to carry out orderly laws in the cosmos. Where is the universal clock? How is time communicated among all particles? They cannot behave independently so there must exist a common clock related to all the matter of the universe.
The Cosmic Clock. The quantum wave medium pervading all space is common to all particles and establishes the cosmic clock. Such clocks are alike because the homogeneity of the medium of the waves produces a fixed wave frequency. As suggested by deBroglie, the cosmic clock is the well-known frequency of the electron f = mc2/h [5]. This frequency is a property of the quantum wave medium and, thus, it is the same for all particles. Similarly the uniform quantum wave medium also provides a measure of length - the electron wavelength.

So, accordingly, we have to assume that Wolff believes the origin of the natural laws lies in the actions of the quantum world. However, that is not an origin, its a stop on the way to the true source... in my opinion. And I'm not getting religious on you!
 
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