Where does resonance fundamentally come from?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the fundamental origins of resonance, exploring its relationship with natural vibrational states of atomic bonds, the physical processes involved in resonance amplification, and comparisons with orbital resonance. Participants delve into both theoretical and conceptual aspects of resonance across different contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that natural vibrational states arise from atomic bonds, questioning the sources and physical processes that lead to resonance amplification.
  • Others argue that the natural frequency of an object is determined by its elastic modulus, which relates to the strength and type of molecular bonds, and that resonance occurs when an oscillating force matches this natural frequency.
  • A participant raises the idea that the size of an object affects its resonant frequency, suggesting that different sizes of the same material will resonate differently due to internal reflections.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of dissipation, stating that resonance is defined in the absence of dissipative processes and that understanding dissipation is crucial to discussing the origins of resonance.
  • There is mention of various types of resonant excitation, including mechanical and electromagnetic, indicating that multiple mechanisms may be involved in resonance phenomena.
  • A later reply questions whether vibrational modes are experienced by every atom in a substance and what types of vibrations are relevant at the atomic level.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the nature and origins of resonance, with no consensus reached on the fundamental questions posed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of resonance and dissipation, as well as unresolved mathematical relationships regarding natural frequencies and their dependence on geometry.

Simfish
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I know it has something to do with the natural vibrational states of atomic bonds (but does it also come from other sources?). But where do those natural vibrational states come from? Why do they tend to arise? And what exactly is the physical process through which resonance amplifies oscillation? Where does the energy come from?

And is this type of resonance fundamentally similar to say, orbital resonance?
 
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The natural frequency of an object is based on the elastic modulus, which comes from the strength and type of bonds holding together the molecules. The natural frequency is the frequency at which an object will oscillate when struck.

Resonance occurs when an oscillating force is applied at the natural frequency, which pushes in the direction of motion, driving the oscillation, and increasing the amplitude of the modulation.

And yes, resonance is resonance. Orbital resonance occurs when the force of gravity between two objects is applied at some regular interval that results in an oscillation.
 
russ_watters said:
The natural frequency of an object is based on the elastic modulus, which comes from the strength and type of bonds holding together the molecules. The natural frequency is the frequency at which an object will oscillate when struck.

Resonance occurs when an oscillating force is applied at the natural frequency, which pushes in the direction of motion, driving the oscillation, and increasing the amplitude of the modulation.

And yes, resonance is resonance. Orbital resonance occurs when the force of gravity between two objects is applied at some regular interval that results in an oscillation.
Does it not also have something to do with the macro size of the object? i.e. a 10cm steel ball will resonate at a different freq than a 20 cm steel ball because of internal reflections?
 
"resonance", defined in terms of how it is measured, occurs in the absense of dissipation. So, in order to talk about where resonance "comes from", one must understand dissipation.

Dissipative processes can be decribed many ways, but in essence dissipation acts to decohere input energy. For example, the coherent field within a microwave resonantly excites water rmolecules, and collisions of the water molecules with other molecules dissipates the coherent EM energy into thermal energy. Exciting a tuning fork with an impulse excites many vibrational modes, most of whom are nonresonant and quickly dissipate their energy- I don't know if the energy can flow into the resonant mode, but strain waves are nonlinear so it may be possible.

What physical processes are involved- there are many types of resonant excitation; mechanical is the obvious one, but one also speak of resonant EM cavities or molecular excitations as well. There are many possible mechanisms involved.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Does it not also have something to do with the macro size of the object? i.e. a 10cm steel ball will resonate at a different freq than a 20 cm steel ball because of internal reflections?
Yes - my explanation was perhaps a bit thin. The equation for natural frequency is simply w=k/m and the elastic modulus is a spring constant... in terms of unit length/area.
We may say that Young's modulus is the Hooke's-law spring constant for the spring made from a specifically cut section of the solid material, cut to length 1 and cross-sectional area 1. The shape of the cross-sectional area does not matter.
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp/Young_s_Modulus_Spring_Constant.html

But for most shapes, then, Young's modulus needs some sort of geometry conversion. The specific conversion depends on the axis of oscillation (ie, an I beam will have 3 basic natural frequencies, one for each axis).
 
I like Andy's treatment of the subject.

In term's of vibrational modes, are these vibrations felt by every atom in the substance? What kinds of vibrations are we talking about with respect to each atom, torsional?
 

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