Which comes first matter or energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether matter or energy came first in the universe, exploring concepts from cosmology, particularly in relation to the Big Bang Theory (BBT). Participants engage in a debate about the nature of energy and matter in the early universe, touching on theoretical implications and interpretations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that in the earliest times of the universe, all was energy, with matter emerging later.
  • There is a reference to the Big Bang Theory's description of a "pointlike thing with infinite mass/density," which some participants find disconnected from reality.
  • Questions arise about the nature of the energy present at the universe's beginning, with mentions of momentum, heat, and photons as possible forms.
  • One participant argues that energy is always a property of something, implying that "pure energy" may not exist unless considering photons as "something."
  • A later reply clarifies that radiation, rather than energy in general, should be considered, noting that the early universe was filled with elementary particles moving at high speeds.
  • Another participant states that while energy is a property of matter, not all forms of energy possess matter properties.
  • There is a mention of Einstein's perspective on photons as particles of energy, with a discussion on photon collisions leading to the creation of mass and anti-mass particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between energy and matter, with no consensus reached on which came first. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing interpretations and hypotheses presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of current theories, noting the unresolved nature of how energy transitioned into matter and the challenges posed by the interplay of relativity and quantum mechanics.

Reogl
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Hey there guys, i had an argument with my office mate during a lunch about "Which comes first -the energy or matter?" Maybe it pop out because I am having crab omelet (egg) while he has (chicken) salad.. but anyway it was unsettled and i would appreciate any help. I am sure he is on net searching as i write this, but i think i have advantage using the forum. Thanks
 
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In the earliest times of the universe, all was energy. Matter came later.
 
Yeah! as i thought.. but what about this they saying in BBT ; "a pointlike thing with infinite mass/density?"
 
Reogl said:
Yeah! as i thought.. but what about this they saying in BBT ; "a pointlike thing with infinite mass/density?"

Sounds like television physics to me, disconnected from reality.
 
Right..Youtube as i recall it. Thanks!

..By the way, How can i describe "all was energy" ? what kind of energy? Momentum? Heat? Photon?
 
Last edited:
Reogl said:
Right..Youtube as i recall it. Thanks!

..By the way, How can i describe "all was energy" ? what kind of energy? Momentum? Heat? Photon?


If you say all was energy? than you have to mean the only form of energy that we don't define as matter and that is light... I don't know if this guy has some sources on this. But it is generally not known how the universe was at the very beginning because relativity+quantum mechanics=unknown. Both theories don't work with each other and both describe the same universe... therefore they are both incorrect, so... we don't really know in what form energy was at the complete beginning, but shortly after it was probably mostly light but how it turned into matter I am not sure on, there are some specialists that can probably tell you what is going on there.
 
Energy is always a property of something. There's no such thing as "pure energy", unless you don't consider photons to be "something."
 
I mis-spoke. I should have said RADIATION, not energy. There WAS matter, it just wasn't clumpled into anything (like atoms or molecules) and was just elementary particles moving at unbelievable speeds. Weinberg estimates that the "temperature" at 1/100th of a second after the singularity was 10E11 degrees and the universe was fillled with electrons, positrons, neutrinos, and photons (I may have left some out).

It's because there are no atoms that I always think of the early universe as devoid of matter, but that clearly is not quite the right way to think about it.
 
Last edited:
jtbell said:
Energy is always a property of something. There's no such thing as "pure energy", unless you don't consider photons to be "something."
So you say they came at the same time?
 
  • #10
Hi.
Every matter has energy as its property. Not all energy have matter property.
Regards.
 
  • #11
Einstein said photon is particle of energy..and 2 photons collision creates mass particle + anti-mass particle...so far Energy of Light wins 5-0 or with a draw
 
  • #12
Reogl said:
Einstein said photon is particle of energy..and 2 photons collision creates mass particle + anti-mass particle...so far Energy of Light wins 5-0 or with a draw

Haha so we can say...

"in the beginning, there was light."
 
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