- #31
BoulderHead
In that case I recommend it not be done while having sex.
Which ones are the Useless moral conventions?
- Thread starter Maryjfl
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The discussion revolves around outdated social customs and principles that participants find nonsensical or hypocritical. Key points include the tradition of gentlemen walking on the curbside to protect women from splashes, which is seen as irrelevant today. The celebration of Christmas for religious reasons is criticized, with arguments that Jesus was likely not born in December and that the holiday has pagan origins. Participants express frustration with the hypocrisy surrounding sexual taboos, suggesting that societal norms around sex and relationships, including monogamy, are outdated. The conversation also touches on the treatment of children and teenagers, highlighting a perceived hypocrisy in parenting that leads to distrust and rebellion. Overall, the thread critiques various social conventions, advocating for a more honest and open dialogue about these issues.
- #32
Maryjfl
- 21
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quote:
"I think monogamy is a stupid moral convention..."
meaning, having a partner for life or meaning having only one partner at a time?
Have u ever read "Brave New World"? the story tells us of a world where it is a moral obligation to have at least 2 or more sexual partners in the same week... that it's seen as bad if you try to have a relationship with only one person. The logic is that in this way, you don't get attached to anybody ever... but then, are you willing to sacrifice the deepness/intensity (i don't know how to express it) of a two-person relationship? it's exclusive, right? but it allows you to get stability, for such a long time that you spend with that person, you can be yourself, etc
of course, if it doesn't work out... i have no say in that matter
"I think monogamy is a stupid moral convention..."
meaning, having a partner for life or meaning having only one partner at a time?
Have u ever read "Brave New World"? the story tells us of a world where it is a moral obligation to have at least 2 or more sexual partners in the same week... that it's seen as bad if you try to have a relationship with only one person. The logic is that in this way, you don't get attached to anybody ever... but then, are you willing to sacrifice the deepness/intensity (i don't know how to express it) of a two-person relationship? it's exclusive, right? but it allows you to get stability, for such a long time that you spend with that person, you can be yourself, etc
of course, if it doesn't work out... i have no say in that matter
- #33
Another God
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Entertaining thread so far
I agree entirely with Boulder (almost)
, particularly about the hypocracy and the cutting the crap. I say what's on my mind, and it shocks people.
I also agree with Gale about the monogamy thing. I have expressed this in public before and you get nothing but strange stares. Try suggesting that you want to have sex with multiple people, or even multiple people at once, or anything at all out of the ordinary, And people look at you as if you are a freak (Of course, doing this in a sincere, well thought through idea, not as a "Hey, I'm a guy and its my social duty to tell everyone that Sex is the only thing on my mind: That being another social convention that annoys the hell out of me)
I hate the hypocracy that surounds sex: "I am the only person in the world who has sex" is basically the mind set. Do your parents have sex? "Ohhh, no...thats gross!" Do your best friends have sex? "ooohhh no, that's gross! I don't want to think about that!" etc
People, get over it. We all have sex. Everyone. It's not 'gross' when u do it, so why is it gross for everyone else?
OK, enough ranting.
Children being treated like lessers
What i mean by that, is that we raise children with such conflicting hypocracy all their lives, and then wonder why they grow up to be liars and not perfect little angels...
Do as I say, not as I do.
"Why do I have to do that" ---> "Because I said so"
The dictatorial attitude of parents annoys me. If parents are so certain that what they are doing is right, then they should be able to explain to the child their reasons (of course, I understand sometimes it gets tiring, but I maintain my point). If you try raising children as people, giving them the credit as individuals that they are due, then they may grow up into individuals, who feel deserving of respect, and able to give respect.
Deciding that teenagers are trouble
Following on from the Children thing, it is so firmly in the mind of society that every child becomes a pain in the ass when they become a teenager. Why do you think this is? Probably because the parents have raised a hypocritical litel child, and they assume the worst of the child, and so start applying unfair rules, and start ignoring everything the teenager says, assuming its all lies. They then wonder why the teenager gets worse over time.
I guess u could reduce both of those points to the social 'Moral convention' of "Respecting your parents" as if they automatically should be treated as gods, and never questioned.
Any rational parent here would be the first to admit that they are far from infallible.
i talk too much. Bye.
I agree entirely with Boulder (almost)
, particularly about the hypocracy and the cutting the crap. I say what's on my mind, and it shocks people.I also agree with Gale about the monogamy thing. I have expressed this in public before and you get nothing but strange stares. Try suggesting that you want to have sex with multiple people, or even multiple people at once, or anything at all out of the ordinary, And people look at you as if you are a freak (Of course, doing this in a sincere, well thought through idea, not as a "Hey, I'm a guy and its my social duty to tell everyone that Sex is the only thing on my mind: That being another social convention that annoys the hell out of me)
I hate the hypocracy that surounds sex: "I am the only person in the world who has sex" is basically the mind set. Do your parents have sex? "Ohhh, no...thats gross!" Do your best friends have sex? "ooohhh no, that's gross! I don't want to think about that!" etc
People, get over it. We all have sex. Everyone. It's not 'gross' when u do it, so why is it gross for everyone else?
OK, enough ranting.
Children being treated like lessers
What i mean by that, is that we raise children with such conflicting hypocracy all their lives, and then wonder why they grow up to be liars and not perfect little angels...
Do as I say, not as I do.
"Why do I have to do that" ---> "Because I said so"
The dictatorial attitude of parents annoys me. If parents are so certain that what they are doing is right, then they should be able to explain to the child their reasons (of course, I understand sometimes it gets tiring, but I maintain my point). If you try raising children as people, giving them the credit as individuals that they are due, then they may grow up into individuals, who feel deserving of respect, and able to give respect.
Deciding that teenagers are trouble
Following on from the Children thing, it is so firmly in the mind of society that every child becomes a pain in the ass when they become a teenager. Why do you think this is? Probably because the parents have raised a hypocritical litel child, and they assume the worst of the child, and so start applying unfair rules, and start ignoring everything the teenager says, assuming its all lies. They then wonder why the teenager gets worse over time.
I guess u could reduce both of those points to the social 'Moral convention' of "Respecting your parents" as if they automatically should be treated as gods, and never questioned.
Any rational parent here would be the first to admit that they are far from infallible.
i talk too much. Bye.
- #34
Zantra
- 791
- 3
Many things we do as a society are hypocracitcal. For instance, Religion. It would make more sense if you could just "pray" and not be forced to go to church. It's viewed as a sin not to go, which is just something made up. If god can really hear you anywhere, then why do you need to be in a church to worship him? And this whole thing about tithing is obviously just "made up".
Other social conventions- I'd have to agree on sexual taboos. But I think that will change with time anyhow. And why is PMS taboo to discuss? I mean, let's get real, everyone knows about it, but the mere mention of it in the prescence of a woman brings hateful stares. Now If you're blaming their behavior on it when that's not the cause, I can understand. But if You're just asking them if they have PMS, or what their cycle is, this shouldn't be a problem. It's a fact of life, we all know it, so why make it hush hush?
Oh and masturbation. Show me someone who says they haven't done it, and I'll show you a liar. Not that you need to discuss it in graphic detail, but denying it is pointless, because no one believes you. That goes for women too. Why is it that people can talk about orgies or 3 ways or BDSM, but they still can't admit to it?
Other social conventions- I'd have to agree on sexual taboos. But I think that will change with time anyhow. And why is PMS taboo to discuss? I mean, let's get real, everyone knows about it, but the mere mention of it in the prescence of a woman brings hateful stares. Now If you're blaming their behavior on it when that's not the cause, I can understand. But if You're just asking them if they have PMS, or what their cycle is, this shouldn't be a problem. It's a fact of life, we all know it, so why make it hush hush?
Oh and masturbation. Show me someone who says they haven't done it, and I'll show you a liar. Not that you need to discuss it in graphic detail, but denying it is pointless, because no one believes you. That goes for women too. Why is it that people can talk about orgies or 3 ways or BDSM, but they still can't admit to it?
- #35
Another God
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
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Not all forms of christianity at least require attendence to church. Most just have church as a way of meeting fellow people of the same belief...Its a i nice place to go for these people, not somewhere where their god requires them to go.
PMS: I haven't found this to be taken badly. Perhaps its in the way u ask it. If everytime a female is a little bit snappy you say "Are you having your period or what??", you have to expect them to be a little offended
As for masturbation: While I agree everyone should do it (as in, no one should be made to feel like its a bad thing), honestly, not everyone wants to. Some people, mostly females, actually do not like the idea of masturbation. One of my best friends didn't do it until he was 17 (when he finally realized the rest of us did it...). A lot of it is probably because they have been raised convinced that masturbation is dirty or whatever. But I assure you, some people actually do not do it. (Although most do)
PMS: I haven't found this to be taken badly. Perhaps its in the way u ask it. If everytime a female is a little bit snappy you say "Are you having your period or what??", you have to expect them to be a little offended
As for masturbation: While I agree everyone should do it (as in, no one should be made to feel like its a bad thing), honestly, not everyone wants to. Some people, mostly females, actually do not like the idea of masturbation. One of my best friends didn't do it until he was 17 (when he finally realized the rest of us did it...). A lot of it is probably because they have been raised convinced that masturbation is dirty or whatever. But I assure you, some people actually do not do it. (Although most do)
- #36
one_raven
- 200
- 0
All of them!
That's not what I was taught.
That is what I was told.
The custom was that if a man were walking with a lady, he would walk on the outside accepting the risk of getting sh1t on his head out of respect for her.
If he was walking with a whore, she would walk on the outside, because he didn't respect her.
So, if you saw a woman walking on the ouside, that meant that either she was a prostitute, or he was a prick.
Well, if you want to be technical...
It can't be "proven" that he was born at ALL.
I actually don't celebrate holidays at all (with the one exception of Halloween it is my vice).
I don't even celebrate my birthday.
But I agree, if you are going to celebrate Christmas, don't make believe that it is about celebrating Jesus knowing full well it is about celebrating Santa (that other silly figment of social imagination) and the presents he is going to bring you.
(BTW, the way I hear it, it was mid-late September.)
There is a lot of talk about hypocrisy on this thread.
Maybe this is for a different thread, but who isn't a hypocrite?
Someone once told me that EVERYONE is a hypocrite to some level or another.
I don't know if that is true or not, but I WILL say that everyone I have ever met, interracted with or heard about is.
So many hypocrites complaining about hypocrisy...
I think they key is to be aware of what it is you are hypocritical about and be actively trying to change that.
What I hate to see is people who, rather than cop to their hypocrisy and either attempt to make changes in themselves or reevaluate their beliefs and convictions, attempt to deny, justify, hide and/or flaunt their hypocricy while still claim to hold and believe in righteousness of their morals and judge others by those false standards.
Damn that was a long sentence!
- #37
Bubonic Plague
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I'd like to see "mature" people praise WWE fer once. A bunch of people wrote into the newspaper forum and whined about wrestling promoting violence and gore.
Yeah, it's partially about violence and gore, but so what? It's fun to watch. And it's not like I'm going to kill someone because i watched wrestling.
Oh yeah. And people saying that if men should be the ones who treat women. If we got the treat instead, we'd be "disgusting", "as we are taking advantage of them".
Yeah, it's partially about violence and gore, but so what? It's fun to watch. And it's not like I'm going to kill someone because i watched wrestling.
Oh yeah. And people saying that if men should be the ones who treat women. If we got the treat instead, we'd be "disgusting", "as we are taking advantage of them".
- #38
Mentat
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I couldn't agree with you more on these two points...but, then, that could be because I'm a 15-year-old who has to deal with these two problems all the time.
- #39
Another God
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I think you would be the perfect case example Mentat. I'd be willing to bet that you are more intelligent, better behaved, and more well thought than at least 50% of the adults out there that you are forced to respect.
(and I say 'at least 50%' because I do mean At least without wanted to exagerate too much...)
And even though that is the case, you are still thought of as just a teenager who 'thinks he knows everything' and so should therefore have every thought summarily dismissed. People very rarely actualy listen to what teenagers say, because it is easy to assume it is un thought out and not informed.