Which ones are the Useless moral conventions?

[Maryjfl]

That's pretty much the question... which social precepts/principles/rules/customs make no sense whatsoever to you, or u think are way out of date for 2003?

Oh, the sillier, the better, thanks for your help

 

[selfAdjoint]

Gentleman walks on the curbside of the sidewalk beside lady.

 

[Mattius_]

praising cultural and racial diversity... makes no sense.

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by selfAdjoint
Gentleman walks on the curbside of the sidewalk beside lady.

i would like to know why you feel this way...personally, any man willing to do this is a gentlemen in my opinion...

i think celebrating christmas for religious purposes is ridiculous...expecially being that it can't be proven that Jesus Christ was born in December, but there is evidence that he was born in October from what I have heard...

 

[WhiteNoise]

Well there is a reason a gentleman would walk on the curbside. It was started long ago when automobiles started to emerge as a means of transportation. It is said that if a car (or carriage, possibly), were to drive by and hit a puddle of water, the man would be the one to shield most of the water from hitting the lady. It's somewhat like putting your coat down in a puddle so the lady won't have to get her feet wet, which is somewhat useless also. If the puddle is deep, when the lady steps on the coat, the coat would sink and her feet would get wet along with your coat.

As for Christmas as a religious holiday, I agree with Kerrie. It should not be celebrated as a religious holiday. I was raised a Christian and it was always emphasized by my grandparents that we celebrate Christmas as a tradition (we do enjoy eating :D). And it does always bother me to see people with holiday tidings such as "Happy Birthday, Jesus" or lights strung on roofs saying "Jesus" or preachers saying that one should give money to Jesus because it's his birthday. "Happy Birthday, Jesus" just dosn't sound right. It sounds somewhat sac-religious to me, in a way. And I also feel bad for those born on or around Christmas. When your birthday is on Christmas, everyone forgets about yours in the holiday rush. People see Jesus' birthday (to some people) as more important than yours.

But I digress. Back to the Christmas thing, I think that Easter should be celebrated more than Christmas. Easter is the day (or the day we've designated to celebrate) that Jesus rose from the dead. It's his ressurection that brings salvation, not his birth. That should be more important for Christians, but that's a different rant altogether. Why we celebrate a fictional rabbit bringing us colored eggs for us to find in our yard makes little sense.

That's my two cents.

 

[nautica]

Originally posted by Mattius_
praising cultural and racial diversity... makes no sense.

Why would praising racial divesity make no sense - we as humans have adapted to our environments in order to survive as a species - if we had no diversity, our species would most likely have faded long ago.

Nautica

 

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Useless Conventions (Democratic)

Elections in some Western nations (eg. Australia) make no sense to me.
For example, last time I voted in a democratic election, it was a bizarre experience. First of all, it was compulsory to vote. Then, when the votes were counted, somehow the number “55 000” was considered to be a “higher representation of democratic preferences” than the number of votes counted to be “90 000”.
That’s the myth of democratic choice I suppose. Pre-selection by plutocracy.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Originally posted by Kerrie
i would like to know why you feel this way...personally, any man willing to do this is a gentlemen in my opinion...

i think celebrating christmas for religious purposes is ridiculous...expecially being that it can't be proven that Jesus Christ was born in December, but there is evidence that he was born in October from what I have heard...

Oh, I always walk on the outside, have been taught to when I was a child. But people no longer throw the contents of their chamberpots out of upstairs windows, which was the original reason for the custom. Let the s**t fall on the gentleman, rather than the lady.

 

[FZ+]

The taboo against cannibalism?

Not to say I'm asking anyone to go order up a pedestrian, but utilitarianly speaking, there is not much of a reason for banning it. Murder is another matter, though...

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by FZ+
The taboo against cannibalism?

Not to say I'm asking anyone to go order up a pedestrian, but utilitarianly speaking, there is not much of a reason for banning it.

Yeah there is...

http://www.racearchives.com/archived/viewnews.asp?newsID=871441066265

 

[FZ+]

But that isn't much greater a risk than getting diseases off any other meat, right?

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Kerrie
i would like to know why you feel this way...personally, any man willing to do this is a gentlemen in my opinion...

i think celebrating christmas for religious purposes is ridiculous...expecially being that it can't be proven that Jesus Christ was born in December, but there is evidence that he was born in October from what I have heard...

I definitely agree with you on this second point. Not only is there evidence that Jesus was born in October, but there is also evidence that he was definitely not born in December (one being that the shepherds were outside with their sheep...which they wouldn't do in the dead of Winter, even in the geographical location of Bethlehem in Judah; another being that the astrologers that were looking for him saw a phenomenon in the sky - along with certain positions of certain constellations (I don't really remember which ones) that are only that way in the September-October timeframe) - which was said to occur in October). Anyway, I'm pretty sure one could date the celebration of Christmas back to the Roman unification of Christianity and the pagan customs of old, one of which was the celebration of the Winter Solstice (or was it "Saturnalia")...on none other than December 25.

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by WhiteNoise
Why we celebrate a fictional rabbit bringing us colored eggs for us to find in our yard makes little sense.

This, too, is related to the attempted unification of Christianity with pagan customs of the Romans. The Romans used the day where you now celebrate Easter, to celebrate the goddess of fertility. The rabbit is a symbol of...*clears throat*...fertility (for obvious reasons ).

 

[Mentat]

I can't think of any out-dated customs (except, perhaps, clapping of hands in applause...I much prefer snapping fingers ), however there are a lot of things that I do that people consider outdated. For example, I pull out chairs for women at the table (unless their husband (or boyfriend, or whatever) is there with them, as I wouldn't want to humiliate/embarass him), I hold doors open, I sit up straight when I eat (without the elbows on the table, or the shoveling of food into my mouth), and I use "please" and "thank you". These, and quite a few more, are things that I was taught were polite, but which more than one person has told me were either "out-dated" or "weird".

 

[ogden75]

Why do we teach our kids about made up "people" (Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc...) but expect them to believe in god?

Mentat, who thinks "thank you" and "please" are weird? Did you grow up in NY city??

 

[BoulderHead]

Originally posted by FZ+
The taboo against cannibalism?

Not to say I'm asking anyone to go order up a pedestrian, but utilitarianly speaking, there is not much of a reason for banning it. Murder is another matter, though...

I can agree with that. It seems absurd to me to starve oneself to death if you had access to Long Pork (providing you didn’t kill someone just to eat their flesh).

I’d like to see it become acceptable to pass gas in public places. I can imagine a society where strangers try to outdo each other in public places, promoting a sense of good humor and cheer…If the US President were, for example, to rip one loose during a State of the Union Address it might even help relieve tension between the nations.

 

[Dissident Dan]

What makes no sense?

Going to church, saying "god bless America" all the time, some eating etiquette rules, the taboo on "profanity", the idea that humans are superior to other animals, the fact that almost always a guy has to ask out a woman and hardly ever does it occur the other way around, sqwaking the phrase "family values" as if every family has the same values and as an excuse for bigotry, a fondness for tradition,...

 

[NateTG]

How about the use of god in 'secular' situations

Specifically on currency, other government documents, and in public school.

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by ogden75
Why do we teach our kids about made up "people" (Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc...) but expect them to believe in god?

Mentat, who thinks "thank you" and "please" are weird? Did you grow up in NY city??

I think it's because I used them every time I asked for something, while they were all (somehow) comfortable just saying "Would you grab me a drink while you're up there?".

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by BoulderHead
I can agree with that. It seems absurd to me to starve oneself to death if you had access to Long Pork (providing you didn’t kill someone just to eat their flesh).

I’d like to see it become acceptable to pass gas in public places. I can imagine a society where strangers try to outdo each other in public places, promoting a sense of good humor and cheer…If the US President were, for example, to rip one loose during a State of the Union Address it might even help relieve tension between the nations.

Unless they had to clear the room completely, and send in the poison experts, because he happened to let out a true SBD!

 

[BoulderHead]

My thinking was that many people sneeze, cough, blow their noses, flick boogers on the floor, and every other vile thing you can think of, butt (pun intended) seem to be suffering from anal retention when it comes to gas. How many people have held great quantities of gas, for hours perhaps, at much personal discomfort? I guess I was never meant for 'polite' society.

...Or I just like to blow hot air.

 

[FZ+]

My thinking was that many people sneeze, cough, blow their noses, flick boogers on the floor, and every other vile thing you can think of...

And in the case of certain politicians, talk?

...butt (pun intended) seem to be suffering from anal retention when it comes to gas. How many people have held great quantities of gas, for hours perhaps, at much personal discomfort? I guess I was never meant for 'polite' society.

 

[full-time-climb]

My favorite is "Sex is bad"

 

[Gale]

Originally posted by full-time-climb
My favorite is "Sex is bad"

hahah... ok well anyone who knows me, knows i'd agree. Sex taboos are really outdated.

Similarly to mentat, my manners sometimes seem weird. I also refer to most of my elders as sirs or ma'ams. Plus, though i still can't understand why its so weird really... is that when someone sneezes i say bless you, then they say thank you, and i say you're welcome. For some reason everyone thinks its hilarious when i say your welcome... i guess most people don't...

And boulderhead... YOU ARE GROSS.. heh... that's so raunchy, I'm so glad you have no say on those matters.

Something i think is really outdated is fossil fuels... you'd really think that we'd have advanced a bit since first discovering fire...

 

[BoulderHead]

Originally posted by Gale17
And boulderhead... YOU ARE GROSS.. heh... that's so raunchy,

Standing by your useless moral conventions, are you?

i'm so glad you have no say on those matters.

Try hanging around me sometime and determine how much say I actually have, haha.

...Just a single, lonely 'voice', crying in the wind...

 

[Maryjfl]

hypocrisy?

Well, it's been very entertaining so far... i still think that politeness is 'nice' to be applied in everyday relations... it's rather the use of bad words that has made me question which way are we supposed to behave...
Here is the thing: one is taught to be polite and kind, but as you get to be a teenager, you realize that the same adults that taught you are actually cursing and having hilarious conversations about topics 'forbidden' to the kids. Of course, as you grow up, you get the same privileges... which kind of turn into obligations some times: in my experience, if you don't curse or 'defy authority' you can't really fit in... and I don't consider the groups i hang out with to be airheads at all, they (me too!) just like to ridicule moral conventions and stuff ( it's fun, isn't it?)
But how come we have to be so hypocrites and expect others (...mainly talking about acquaintances, not close friends)
to behave in a certain way, while we are thinking differently inside?

 

[Gale]

Originally posted by BoulderHead
Standing by your useless moral conventions, are you?

Try hanging around me sometime and determine how much say I actually have, haha.

...Just a single, lonely 'voice', crying in the wind...

Gross gross Gross gross gross... eww... thank god for useless moral conventions... that's GROSS

 

[cucumber]

i must say, i agree with boulderhead on the matter.

a thing that should be banned, though, is smoking in public places.
mainly because it is utterly disgusting (i'd much rather sit next to, say, boulderhead in a park, than some guy puffing away) but also because it is damaging people's health.
it's basically like sneezing in a strangers face when you have the flu, only worse because cancer isn't cured as easily...

smoking, now THAT is gross.

 

[BoulderHead]

Thank you, cucumber,
It's good to know someone is willing to stand behind me !

But how come we have to be so hypocrites and expect others (...mainly talking about acquaintances, not close friends) to behave in a certain way, while we are thinking differently inside?

Well, for me personally I consider nearly the whole of humanity to be practicing hypocrites, and this extends into far too many areas to even touch on here. With regard to certain moral conventions, people pretend they are not simply animals; lie about having sex with *that* woman, put on an air of sophistication that denies what they really want to do more than anything else at the moment is fart, etc.
I know what I am, and I think I know what everyone else is, too.
Let’s cut the crap…

 

[Gale]

Originally posted by BoulderHead
Thank you, cucumber,
It's good to know someone is willing to stand behind me !


Well, for me personally I consider nearly the whole of humanity to be practicing hypocrites, and this extends into far too many areas to even touch on here. With regard to certain moral conventions, people pretend they are not simply animals; lie about having sex with *that* woman, put on an air of sophistication that denies what they really want to do more than anything else at the moment is fart, etc.
I know what I am, and I think I know what everyone else is, too.
Let’s cut the crap…

heh... at first i thought cucumber was just a pet name... all these new names confuse me...

and i do agree that most of humanity is hypocritical. I'm probably the biggest hypocrite ever. But farting still gross...


>I think monogamy is a stupid moral convention...

 

[BoulderHead]

Originally posted by Gale17
But farting still gross...

In that case I recommend it not be done while having sex.

 

[Maryjfl]

quote:
"I think monogamy is a stupid moral convention..."

meaning, having a partner for life or meaning having only one partner at a time?


Have u ever read "Brave New World"? the story tells us of a world where it is a moral obligation to have at least 2 or more sexual partners in the same week... that it's seen as bad if you try to have a relationship with only one person. The logic is that in this way, you don't get attached to anybody ever... but then, are you willing to sacrifice the deepness/intensity (i don't know how to express it) of a two-person relationship? it's exclusive, right? but it allows you to get stability, for such a long time that you spend with that person, you can be yourself, etc
of course, if it doesn't work out... i have no say in that matter

 

[Another God]

Entertaining thread so far
I agree entirely with Boulder (almost) , particularly about the hypocracy and the cutting the crap. I say what's on my mind, and it shocks people.
I also agree with Gale about the monogamy thing. I have expressed this in public before and you get nothing but strange stares. Try suggesting that you want to have sex with multiple people, or even multiple people at once, or anything at all out of the ordinary, And people look at you as if you are a freak (Of course, doing this in a sincere, well thought through idea, not as a "Hey, I'm a guy and its my social duty to tell everyone that Sex is the only thing on my mind: That being another social convention that annoys the hell out of me)

I hate the hypocracy that surounds sex: "I am the only person in the world who has sex" is basically the mind set. Do your parents have sex? "Ohhh, no...thats gross!" Do your best friends have sex? "ooohhh no, that's gross! I don't want to think about that!" etc

People, get over it. We all have sex. Everyone. It's not 'gross' when u do it, so why is it gross for everyone else?

OK, enough ranting.

Children being treated like lessers
What i mean by that, is that we raise children with such conflicting hypocracy all their lives, and then wonder why they grow up to be liars and not perfect little angels...
Do as I say, not as I do.
"Why do I have to do that" ---> "Because I said so"
The dictatorial attitude of parents annoys me. If parents are so certain that what they are doing is right, then they should be able to explain to the child their reasons (of course, I understand sometimes it gets tiring, but I maintain my point). If you try raising children as people, giving them the credit as individuals that they are due, then they may grow up into individuals, who feel deserving of respect, and able to give respect.

Deciding that teenagers are trouble
Following on from the Children thing, it is so firmly in the mind of society that every child becomes a pain in the ass when they become a teenager. Why do you think this is? Probably because the parents have raised a hypocritical litel child, and they assume the worst of the child, and so start applying unfair rules, and start ignoring everything the teenager says, assuming its all lies. They then wonder why the teenager gets worse over time.

I guess u could reduce both of those points to the social 'Moral convention' of "Respecting your parents" as if they automatically should be treated as gods, and never questioned.

Any rational parent here would be the first to admit that they are far from infallible.

i talk too much. Bye.

 

[Zantra]

Many things we do as a society are hypocracitcal. For instance, Religion. It would make more sense if you could just "pray" and not be forced to go to church. It's viewed as a sin not to go, which is just something made up. If god can really hear you anywhere, then why do you need to be in a church to worship him? And this whole thing about tithing is obviously just "made up".

Other social conventions- I'd have to agree on sexual taboos. But I think that will change with time anyhow. And why is PMS taboo to discuss? I mean, let's get real, everyone knows about it, but the mere mention of it in the prescence of a woman brings hateful stares. Now If you're blaming their behavior on it when that's not the cause, I can understand. But if You're just asking them if they have PMS, or what their cycle is, this shouldn't be a problem. It's a fact of life, we all know it, so why make it hush hush?

Oh and masturbation. Show me someone who says they haven't done it, and I'll show you a liar. Not that you need to discuss it in graphic detail, but denying it is pointless, because no one believes you. That goes for women too. Why is it that people can talk about orgies or 3 ways or BDSM, but they still can't admit to it?

 

[Another God]

Not all forms of christianity at least require attendence to church. Most just have church as a way of meeting fellow people of the same belief...Its a i nice place to go for these people, not somewhere where their god requires them to go.

PMS: I haven't found this to be taken badly. Perhaps its in the way u ask it. If everytime a female is a little bit snappy you say "Are you having your period or what??", you have to expect them to be a little offended

As for masturbation: While I agree everyone should do it (as in, no one should be made to feel like its a bad thing), honestly, not everyone wants to. Some people, mostly females, actually do not like the idea of masturbation. One of my best friends didn't do it until he was 17 (when he finally realized the rest of us did it...). A lot of it is probably because they have been raised convinced that masturbation is dirty or whatever. But I assure you, some people actually do not do it. (Although most do)

 

[one_raven]

Which ones are the Useless moral conventions?

All of them!

Originally posted by WhiteNoise
Well there is a reason a gentleman would walk on the curbside. It was started long ago when automobiles started to emerge as a means of transportation. It is said that if a car (or carriage, possibly), were to drive by and hit a puddle of water, the man would be the one to shield most of the water from hitting the lady. It's somewhat like putting your coat down in a puddle so the lady won't have to get her feet wet, which is somewhat useless also. If the puddle is deep, when the lady steps on the coat, the coat would sink and her feet would get wet along with your coat.

That's not what I was taught.

Originally posted by selfAdjoint
Oh, I always walk on the outside, have been taught to when I was a child. But people no longer throw the contents of their chamberpots out of upstairs windows, which was the original reason for the custom. Let the s**t fall on the gentleman, rather than the lady.

That is what I was told.
The custom was that if a man were walking with a lady, he would walk on the outside accepting the risk of getting sh1t on his head out of respect for her.
If he was walking with a whore, she would walk on the outside, because he didn't respect her.
So, if you saw a woman walking on the ouside, that meant that either she was a prostitute, or he was a prick.

Originally posted by Kerrie
i think celebrating christmas for religious purposes is ridiculous...expecially being that it can't be proven that Jesus Christ was born in December, but there is evidence that he was born in October from what I have heard...

Well, if you want to be technical...
It can't be "proven" that he was born at ALL.

I actually don't celebrate holidays at all (with the one exception of Halloween it is my vice).
I don't even celebrate my birthday.
But I agree, if you are going to celebrate Christmas, don't make believe that it is about celebrating Jesus knowing full well it is about celebrating Santa (that other silly figment of social imagination) and the presents he is going to bring you.
(BTW, the way I hear it, it was mid-late September.)

There is a lot of talk about hypocrisy on this thread.
Maybe this is for a different thread, but who isn't a hypocrite?
Someone once told me that EVERYONE is a hypocrite to some level or another.
I don't know if that is true or not, but I WILL say that everyone I have ever met, interracted with or heard about is.
So many hypocrites complaining about hypocrisy...
I think they key is to be aware of what it is you are hypocritical about and be actively trying to change that.
What I hate to see is people who, rather than cop to their hypocrisy and either attempt to make changes in themselves or reevaluate their beliefs and convictions, attempt to deny, justify, hide and/or flaunt their hypocricy while still claim to hold and believe in righteousness of their morals and judge others by those false standards.
Damn that was a long sentence!

 

[Bubonic Plague]

I'd like to see "mature" people praise WWE fer once. A bunch of people wrote into the newspaper forum and whined about wrestling promoting violence and gore.

Yeah, it's partially about violence and gore, but so what? It's fun to watch. And it's not like I'm going to kill someone because i watched wrestling.

Oh yeah. And people saying that if men should be the ones who treat women. If we got the treat instead, we'd be "disgusting", "as we are taking advantage of them".

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Another God
Children being treated like lessers
What i mean by that, is that we raise children with such conflicting hypocracy all their lives, and then wonder why they grow up to be liars and not perfect little angels...
Do as I say, not as I do.
"Why do I have to do that" ---> "Because I said so"
The dictatorial attitude of parents annoys me. If parents are so certain that what they are doing is right, then they should be able to explain to the child their reasons (of course, I understand sometimes it gets tiring, but I maintain my point). If you try raising children as people, giving them the credit as individuals that they are due, then they may grow up into individuals, who feel deserving of respect, and able to give respect.

Deciding that teenagers are trouble
Following on from the Children thing, it is so firmly in the mind of society that every child becomes a pain in the ass when they become a teenager. Why do you think this is? Probably because the parents have raised a hypocritical litel child, and they assume the worst of the child, and so start applying unfair rules, and start ignoring everything the teenager says, assuming its all lies. They then wonder why the teenager gets worse over time.

I guess u could reduce both of those points to the social 'Moral convention' of "Respecting your parents" as if they automatically should be treated as gods, and never questioned.

Any rational parent here would be the first to admit that they are far from infallible.

I couldn't agree with you more on these two points...but, then, that could be because I'm a 15-year-old who has to deal with these two problems all the time.

 

[Another God]

Originally posted by Mentat
I couldn't agree with you more on these two points...but, then, that could be because I'm a 15-year-old who has to deal with these two problems all the time.

I think you would be the perfect case example Mentat. I'd be willing to bet that you are more intelligent, better behaved, and more well thought than at least 50% of the adults out there that you are forced to respect.

(and I say 'at least 50%' because I do mean At least without wanted to exagerate too much...)

And even though that is the case, you are still thought of as just a teenager who 'thinks he knows everything' and so should therefore have every thought summarily dismissed. People very rarely actualy listen to what teenagers say, because it is easy to assume it is un thought out and not informed.