Which redshift value is used in the velocity measurement of distance

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the use of redshift values in measuring the velocity of stellar objects, specifically addressing the distinction between observed redshift and cosmological redshift. The relationship between these redshifts is outlined, with equations provided for calculating cosmological redshift based on observed values. Participants agree that while the impact of Earth's motion on redshift is minimal, systematic errors in averaging redshifts from multiple objects could introduce significant inaccuracies. The consensus is that further investigation into these systematic effects is warranted, although current methodologies using spectroscopic redshifts are expected to maintain errors below 1%.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of redshift concepts, including observed and cosmological redshift
  • Familiarity with the Hubble constant (H0) and its application in cosmology
  • Knowledge of velocity equations in astrophysics, specifically relating to stellar objects
  • Basic grasp of systematic errors in astronomical measurements
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of systematic errors in cosmological measurements
  • Study the Hubble constant and its role in calculating redshift
  • Learn about spectroscopic redshifts and their advantages in data accuracy
  • Examine case studies of galaxy surveys and their methodologies for error correction
USEFUL FOR

Astronomers, astrophysicists, and researchers involved in cosmology and distance measurement techniques will benefit from this discussion, particularly those focusing on redshift analysis and its implications for cosmic distance scales.

Arman777
Insights Author
Gold Member
Messages
2,163
Reaction score
191
Let us say that we have a stellar object so its total velocity is defined as

$$ v_{tot} = v_{pec} + V_{rec}$$

Where

$$V_{rec} = H_0r$$

and $$V(z) = \frac{cz}{1+z}[1+\frac{1}{2}(1-q_0)z - \frac{1}{6}(1-q_0-3q_0^2+j_0)z^2]$$

for small z.So my first question is what is the $z$ value here? Is it the observed redshift or the cosmological redshift?

Also, the relationship between observed and cosmological redshift is given.

$$ 1+z_{obs} = (1 + z_{cos})(1 + z_{earth})((1 + z_{sun})(1 + z_{source})(1 + z_{gravity})$$

If we are using the cosmological redshift then by using above equation we can write,

$$ z_{cos} = \frac{1 + z_{obs}} {(1 + z_{earth})((1 + z_{sun})(1 + z_{source})(1 + z_{gravity})}-1 $$

So is this what we put in (4)?

Edit: For the source you can look here https://arxiv.org/abs/1907.12639 Eqn(16) and (18)
 
Last edited:
Space news on Phys.org
Generally just the observed redshift is used is my understanding. The redshift imposed by the motion of the Earth relative to the galactic medium is, in most situations, considered to be too small to be relevant. Consider, for example, an object at a redshift of ##z=1##. The maximal impact of the Earth's motion on this redshift is about 0.2%, so that if the "actual" redshift is 1, then the measured redshift might be anywhere between ##0.998## and ##1.002##.

But that's if only one object is measured. If objects across the sky are measured, the redshifts are effectively averaged, leading to much smaller effects in the final result.

This paper you posted attempts to challenge this accepted understanding, pointing out that even these small effects, if they are systematic, can cause significant issues. They point out, for instance, that large regions of the universe are moving together, so that averaging many objects in those regions will lead to a systematic offset in the redshift. They further claim that even small systematic errors can potentially cause large effects for estimated parameters.

That last claim may be a concern. I definitely know of some situations where small systematic errors can lead to large errors elsewhere. I've only skimmed the paper, so I haven't really evaluated their argument, but on the surface it appears to be incomplete. There are relatively easy ways for teams analyzing large data sets (e.g. galaxy surveys) to do cross-checks that would measure the impact of these kinds of errors. My bet is that as long as they are using spectroscopic redshifts, the systematic errors will tend to remain pretty small. But it's definitely worth further investigation to ensure this is the case.
 
kimbyd said:
Generally just the observed redshift is used is my understanding.
I see
kimbyd said:
They point out, for instance, that large regions of the universe are moving together, so that averaging many objects in those regions will lead to a systematic offset in the redshift.
I did not understand this part.

The changes would be small I guess. Since the current distance ladder error goal is %1 they mentioned this problem..
 
Arman777 said:
I see

I did not understand this part.

The changes would be small I guess. Since the current distance ladder error goal is %1 they mentioned this problem..
Right, so it's worth investigating, but the back-of-the-envelope numbers suggest that errors introduced by these systematic effects should be much less than 1%. This paper you linked argues that it might actually make a difference. My conclusion is that it's definitely worth investigating, but there's a fair chance that this is a red herring.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Arman777

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
Replies
21
Views
4K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
6K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
6K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
8K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K