Who drew the first model of the atom?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying the first person to draw a model of the atom, particularly focusing on the visual representation that resembles a solar system. Participants are exploring the historical context and accuracy of various atomic models, including those proposed by Rutherford and Bohr.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to identify the first artist of a specific atomic model and requests evidence for their claim.
  • Another participant suggests a Wikipedia article on the Bohr model as a potential resource.
  • Several participants express uncertainty about whether the drawing in question was created by Bohr, Rutherford, or someone else.
  • One participant notes that the drawing is commonly seen in scientific logos, including the PF logo.
  • A participant mentions Rutherford's experiments in 1908, describing his atomic model as resembling a mini-solar system, and states that Bohr later refined this model.
  • Another participant points out that the drawing in question inaccurately represents the size of the nucleus compared to the atom.
  • Concerns are raised about the representation of orbits in the drawing, noting that it uses ellipses while Bohr's model used circular orbits, leading to questions about its theoretical accuracy.
  • One participant references Sommerfeld's extension of the Bohr model, which included elliptical orbits, suggesting a possible connection to the drawing's representation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on who first drew the atomic model in question, with multiple competing views and uncertainties remaining about the historical accuracy and representation of the models discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their research efforts regarding the history of the drawing, and there are unresolved questions about the accuracy of the representations of atomic structure.

William Chua
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Does anybody know who first drew (not just described but actually drew, even roughly) a model of the atom like the one below, and when:
rutherford-atom-for-carbon_lg.jpg

I'd appreciate it if anybody can point me to an evidence.
 

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Have you searched the Internet for "History of the Atom"?
 
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I was hoping someone could point me to sketches like these:
bohr sketch 1.jpg
bohr sketch 2.jpg

I was told these were sketches done by Bohr but it doesn't quite look like the image I was looking for (the one I posted earlier.) It's a very ubiquitous picture. I see it in almost every logo that has something to do with science. But I can't figure out who really first drew that picture. Was it Bohr? Or Rutherford? Or maybe someone else?
 

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William Chua said:
I see it in almost every logo that has something to do with science.
Like the PF logo... :wink:
 
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William Chua said:
I I see it in almost every logo that has something to do with science. But I can't figure out who really first drew that picture. Was it Bohr? Or Rutherford? Or maybe someone else?
I think it *is* just a logo, based on that Bohr sketch on the right.
 
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berkeman said:
Like the PF logo... :wink:
Hahaha! Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't notice that! :smile:
But, really, I'm curious who made that drawing first and when.
 
William Chua said:
Hahaha! Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't notice that! :smile:
But, really, I'm curious who made that drawing first and when.
Pretty sure it was @Greg Bernhardt when he updated the forum software about a year ago... :biggrin:
 
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berkeman said:
Pretty sure it was @Greg Bernhardt when he updated the forum software about a year ago... :biggrin:
But I'm also pretty sure @Greg Bernhardt is too young to have done it first. :rolleyes:
 
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  • #10
William Chua said:
But I'm also pretty sure @Greg Bernhardt is too young to have done it first. :rolleyes:

The first scientist to have a glimpse of the true nature of the atoms was Rutherford. In his experiments (called the Geiger-Mardsen experiments) in 1908, when using golden foils and alpha particles he was able to determine the localization of the positive part of the atom, as the centre of it, and its distance from the electrons or electronic cloud. According to Rutherford, it looked like a mini-solar system, with the negative electrons spinning around the nucleus (positive) like planets around the sun. Bohr refined this system afterwards, to include his energy-level's theory.
 
  • #11
I'm also very interested in this question. I wasn't able to find a good source about the history of the that drawing, but I confess I didn't do that much research...

What puzzles me is that the drawing uses ellipses to represent the orbits, while Bohr's orbits are circular. So in a sense, it doesn't correspond to any actual theory that was proposed about the atom.
 
  • #12
It should be pointed out that your original picture is enormously inaccurate regarding the size of the nucleus. It is drawn about five orders of magnitude bigger than its actual size.
 
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  • #13
DrClaude said:
What puzzles me is that the drawing uses ellipses to represent the orbits, while Bohr's orbits are circular. So in a sense, it doesn't correspond to any actual theory that was proposed about the atom.
A circle viewed obliquely appears elliptical.
 
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  • #14
DrClaude said:
What puzzles me is that the drawing uses ellipses to represent the orbits, while Bohr's orbits are circular. So in a sense, it doesn't correspond to any actual theory that was proposed about the atom.
Didn't Sommerfeld's extension of the original Bohr model use elliptical orbits?
 
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