Who was the observer for the first 10 billion years?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of observation in relation to the universe's existence and the implications for quantum mechanics and cosmology. Participants explore whether an observer is necessary for reality and how this relates to the age of the universe and the nature of particles.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions who the observer was for the first 10 billion years of the universe if reality requires an observer and life on Earth is only 3.8 billion years old.
  • Another participant asserts that reality does not require an observer, challenging the initial premise.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the statement regarding particles having no definite position or velocity until measured, questioning if this applies to reality in general or just specific particles.
  • One participant disputes the necessity of a human observer, emphasizing that it is not correct to claim that a human is required for observation.
  • Another participant references a quote from a Stephen Hawking book, expressing confusion over the general stance on the observer's role in reality.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the discussion is about quantum mechanics rather than cosmology and suggests that the initial participant should study quantum mechanics from a textbook.
  • There is a contention regarding the credibility of sources, with one participant dismissing the use of popular science books as acceptable references for discussing actual science.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of an observer for reality, with some arguing against it while others question the implications of observation in quantum mechanics. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of "observer" and the implications of observation in both quantum mechanics and cosmology. The discussion also reflects a dependence on the interpretation of popular science literature versus peer-reviewed sources.

newrd
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If reality requires an observer, and life on Earth is only 3.8 billion years old- yet the universe is 13.8 billion years old, who was the observer for the first 10 billion years?
 
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Reality does not require an observer.
 
So when we say "A particle has neither a definite position nor a definite velocity unless and until those quantities are measured by an observer" it doesn't mean for reality in general- just specific particles?
 
newrd said:
So when we say

In the words of Tonto, "What you mean we?" I have never said such a thing, because it's not correct. A human observer is not required.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
In the words of Tonto, "What you mean we?" I have never said such a thing, because it's not correct. A human observer is not required.
Ahh ok, I got the quote from a Stephen Hawking book, I thought it may just be the generally agreed upon stance?
 
Vanadium 50 said:
In the words of Tonto, "What you mean we?" I have never said such a thing, because it's not correct. A human observer is not required.
Ohh yeah- and I never said human ;)
 
newrd said:
when we say "A particle has neither a definite position nor a definite velocity unless and until those quantities are measured by an observer"

Then we are talking about quantum mechanics, not cosmology, and you should spend some time actually learning QM from a textbook.

newrd said:
I got the quote from a Stephen Hawking book

Which, since I'm assuming it was a pop science book (because Hawking doesn't say anything like this in any actual peer-reviewed literature), is not an acceptable source when you want to discuss the actual science. Thread closed.
 

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